bigpoppa
Well-known member
Nah more like his skin tan is going to match is new uniform soon.
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Hit to H-D by India because of Trump's trade war
- Thread starter robmack
- Start date
Nah more like his skin tan is going to match is new uniform soon.
I have the Benny Hill theme song in my head a lot of the time watching Trump on TV.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FNUrMrH89A
Update on the harley trump europe thing.
Apparently harley is losing in the US, but europeans like them so the factory goes there.
Update on the harley trump europe thing.
Apparently harley is losing in the US, but europeans like them so the factory goes there.
Meh, like I said in an earlier reply, a lot of American HD owners will get all butthurt, say they're not gonna ride Harleys anymore, blah blah blah.
And then once this too has passed, they will completely throw everything they said they'd do right out the window and just continue on as normal. Because Harley.
At least HD isn't afraid to deal with the very real reality that their market share is dying (figuratively, and literally - their target American consumer is getting old and dying) and realize that if they don't do something to continue to take advantage of the European market where they ARE making money (and expanding market share) they're gonna be in deep **** inside 5-10 years.
However....what's left to be seen yet is if this trade war leaves lasting scars that even avoiding the tarrifs can't fix - look at the "Avoid American products" sentiment already spreading here in Canada. If the same thing happens in Europe (as wouldn't be surprising to see happen) HD could be up shart creek regardless of what they do as people in Europe may just see HD's as a part of the "America that hates us" and simply stop buying them. If Trump makes true on his threat to tarrif European cars coming into the USA...you wanna believe this sentiment is going to get a whole lot stronger.
Wouldn't it be ironic if a year or two from now HD goes bankrupt because of all of this.
Roadghost
Well-known member
I can't trust a thing CNN says. They're biased journalism at its worst. Some of the production is going to India. Mainly to get around the European tariffs. There is no production in Europe. The North American factory will continue to service the North American market...for now. We'll see what happens when Canada's tariffs kick in. Maybe we'll get bikes from India too. Regardless, I understand that Trump is trying to leverage the Europeans into allowing freer trade. I don't blame him for that because the Europeans are more protectionist than anyone. But Harley Davidson is in bad financial shape. Faced with declining motorcycle sales in North America they can't afford to see their profitable European sales crash too. All they're doing is trying to survive as a business.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The won't go bankrupt, they will be called TATA-HD or GEELY-HD.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
There are a bunch of other credible sources saying essentially the same thing.
Would you trust those instead?
In any event, weather the factory goes to Europe(likely) or they build another one in India, it all means the same thing, fewer american jobs and harley not being made in america
H-D already has a factory in Brasil, so the conversation becomes can Brasil ship into the EU or will the product be taxed based on location of a head office (wisconson)
The factory in India is to circumvent the Indian import tax which was close to 30%, and allow easier access to China which was a large market, you have to look at Asia as a whole , not selling bikes to Indians.
EU is about 25% of H-D sales. Putting a factory in Spain? would be cost effective and easy, over the years a few manufactures have made bikes in Spain and its just easier than Italy.
H-D claims Trumps steel tariffs will cost them 30 million dollars a year. The growth markets are offshore, they have tooling and equipment left over from the Kansas city closure, I know where I'd be looking.
The factory in India is to circumvent the Indian import tax which was close to 30%, and allow easier access to China which was a large market, you have to look at Asia as a whole , not selling bikes to Indians.
EU is about 25% of H-D sales. Putting a factory in Spain? would be cost effective and easy, over the years a few manufactures have made bikes in Spain and its just easier than Italy.
H-D claims Trumps steel tariffs will cost them 30 million dollars a year. The growth markets are offshore, they have tooling and equipment left over from the Kansas city closure, I know where I'd be looking.
robmack
Well-known member
It's known that H-D's market in the US has been declining for some time as die-hard Harley customers age and millennials don't purchase the current H-D models because those H-D designs don't reflect their tastes or lifestyle. The EU and Indian tariffs (maybe others in the future from other nations) will negatively impact the company so they can offset those cost increases in several ways:
- transfer the costs of tariffs by raising prices on motorcycles in the home market. That will have a negative effect on sales revenues and therefore profitability.
- attempt to build the motorcycles cheaper, which might not be viable. If it was viable, the quality of the products would suffer and that again cuts into sales revenues and lowers profitability of H-D (i.e. by customer abandonment, increased warranty claims, possible class action litigation)
- transfer manufacturing to another region where the customer base is steady or increasing, and avoid the tariffs. However, Trump might impose his tax on home market sales and kill any offsetting effect of avoiding tariffs.
- change the model lineup to attract more millennials. That could severely alienate the current base of riders and it's a gamble. If it was so easy to predict the right product for the young generation, H-D would have done it by now anyway.
None of these options is good for H-D.
- transfer the costs of tariffs by raising prices on motorcycles in the home market. That will have a negative effect on sales revenues and therefore profitability.
- attempt to build the motorcycles cheaper, which might not be viable. If it was viable, the quality of the products would suffer and that again cuts into sales revenues and lowers profitability of H-D (i.e. by customer abandonment, increased warranty claims, possible class action litigation)
- transfer manufacturing to another region where the customer base is steady or increasing, and avoid the tariffs. However, Trump might impose his tax on home market sales and kill any offsetting effect of avoiding tariffs.
- change the model lineup to attract more millennials. That could severely alienate the current base of riders and it's a gamble. If it was so easy to predict the right product for the young generation, H-D would have done it by now anyway.
None of these options is good for H-D.
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bigpoppa
Well-known member
It IS easy to predict the right product for the young generation. HD, and Indian have both done it.
The entire scout lineup is PERFECT for any youngster. Its fast, its fun, its light, and its relatively affordable.
They knew hipsters would like a cafe racer custom look, so they made a scout bobber. They released a prototype at a few shows, people responded to it, so now they are bringing the FTR1200 into production.
Their bikes have better reputation as far as reliability goes, as well as engineering prowess. By all accounts the scout has decent suspension and an engine that doesn't die at midrange, their bikes are liquid cooled and quiet(efficiency?)
Sounds like a company that knows how to run a business and listens to its customer.
Not exactly a race bike, but as far as cruisers go, they seemed to have figured it out. Bringing cruisers into the future.
Harley had models like this(Lowrider S?) but of course they priced it right out of the reach of young buyers and millennials (20k + taxes+fees)
They CHOOSE to do this. Anyone with half a brain and a marketing department will know how to cater to the new demographic.
As a 20 something, ill test ride the ftr, if the engine is as good as I hear, I might put a deposit down.
The entire scout lineup is PERFECT for any youngster. Its fast, its fun, its light, and its relatively affordable.
They knew hipsters would like a cafe racer custom look, so they made a scout bobber. They released a prototype at a few shows, people responded to it, so now they are bringing the FTR1200 into production.
Their bikes have better reputation as far as reliability goes, as well as engineering prowess. By all accounts the scout has decent suspension and an engine that doesn't die at midrange, their bikes are liquid cooled and quiet(efficiency?)
Sounds like a company that knows how to run a business and listens to its customer.
Not exactly a race bike, but as far as cruisers go, they seemed to have figured it out. Bringing cruisers into the future.
Harley had models like this(Lowrider S?) but of course they priced it right out of the reach of young buyers and millennials (20k + taxes+fees)
They CHOOSE to do this. Anyone with half a brain and a marketing department will know how to cater to the new demographic.
As a 20 something, ill test ride the ftr, if the engine is as good as I hear, I might put a deposit down.
On the topic of tarrifs, I spoke to a friend today who works in the aluminum industry, the products of which they ship to the USA were indeed hit with the 10% tarrifs.
What happened? They had about a 48 hour disruption in shipping while they sorted out the financials...and the USA customer are now paying 10% more for their product, which of course, is almost certainly being passed directly to the consumer in a higher price at their retail level.
Winning....?
What happened? They had about a 48 hour disruption in shipping while they sorted out the financials...and the USA customer are now paying 10% more for their product, which of course, is almost certainly being passed directly to the consumer in a higher price at their retail level.
Winning....?
Trump tariffs could tip Canada into recession, trade committee told
Incredible how one guy can so massively **** up the global economic structure.
Whatever happened to checks and balances? What is the US Congress' responsibility here?
Incredible how one guy can so massively **** up the global economic structure.
Whatever happened to checks and balances? What is the US Congress' responsibility here?
Tariffs always end up being paid for by the people inside the country that applies the tariffs.
Just wait until Walmart increases their prices by 20% across the board in the USA.
Just wait until auto manufacturers increase their MSRPs by 20% across the board. Imported vehicles will go up in price because the tariff directly applies. US-built vehicles will go up in price because imported parts and materials that go into them will be taxed. Think about how much tariff applies to something that crosses the US-Canada border 7 times before the car ends up in the showroom, especially if Canada applies retaliatory tariffs (which it should).
Sales volume will crash. People will hang onto their old cars. That alone is probably sufficient to drive the USA into recession, if not depression. We'll be dragged along ... unless we can sort out a whole bunch of non-tariff barriers in a big hurry so that we can trade with the rest of the world and tell the Americans to go to hell.
I don't feel too guilty about having several made-in-Japan motorcycles and Mexican-built but European-origin other vehicles.
This is not going to work out well for Trump. Wait until precious metals used in electronics are subjected to a massive tariff surcharge...the US doesn’t have a ready supply of its own. The rest of the world should be looking at freer trade without the US where possible and just leave them in limbo for a while. Once people start to miss their Mercedes, French wine, Italian fizzy water, German beer and cheap Chinese goods and Korean electronics then something will be done. There are only a few “made in the US” products that I’d call quality items and most of those come from small operations.
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