bigpoppa
Well-known member
What if your a marquez fan?
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It's not the track....don't bunch up.
- Thread starter MacDoc
- Start date
StreetDovi FTW.
J_F
Guest
good point
there is some resemblance
poor Dovi, tough year
http://[img]https://i.imgur.com/xIXqlnn.jpg[/img]
http://[img]https://i.imgur.com/UKOHdo2.jpg[/img]
Megamaniac
Well-known member
For me riding the street is ALL about the chicken strips...never had them and never never did my butt leave the seat to lean off UNLESS totally necessary. Its actually easier to scrub those puppies. I laugh with glee watching noobs or wannabees exaggerated leanoffs causing chaos in multi corners leaning one way then the other. Meanwhile I am calm in my seat countersteering which lowers that front end dropping it and tossing the bike in the corner picking my lines to scrub that front chicky.
Those numnuts in that video cant ride for beans and should not document stupidity.
Those numnuts in that video cant ride for beans and should not document stupidity.
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Read Total Control, Twist of the Wrist, or take the Sharp Advanced Riding course, Racer 5, or FAST for a more in-depth explaination. I'm gonna do it point form because this is wordy-lengthy otherwise:
Rider + Bike + Straight + Gravity = Force goes straight down to the ground, contact patch increases
Crossed up rider + bike + turning = Conflicting forces between rider (going straight down), and motorcycle (going side ways). These forces do not cancel out and result in an increased lean angle. Also, contact patch is decreased relative to the first example. This results in overall less traction than going straight. This is why jerky movements involving brakes or throttle while leaned over are far more likely to induce traction loss and crashing. This works for dirt; because I have zero knowledge of how to ride fast on dirt, somebody more competent at dirt should explain why this works as I have no idea.
Hanging off rider + bike + turning = Rider is actually in motion with bike now. Force is going in the same direction as bike as well (read up on centrifugal forces and how they work). Less conflicting forces = less lean angle required = more contact patch = more traction
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油井緋色;2574615 said:
Well the first problem with your logic is that on a motorcycle tire the contact patch size increases in size as you lean, until you reach about 45 degrees with modern tires.
You are ignoring the geometry of the suspension, the suspension action, center of gravity, the shape of the tire... I could go on....
You actually have very little traction traveling in a straight line, perpendicular to the road surface.
This stuff you should have learned in your vast experience of riding in a "high performance setting", but hey, thanks for the bunny with a waffle.
Face
Well-known member
So what if you're leaned over to the edge of your tire, and you find that the blind corner you're on has a decreasing radius, or an oncoming car starts to drift over the line, or there's a dead raccoon on your line, and you need to counter steer a little more to tighten it up? If you're hanging off and have 5 degrees less lean, you've got that extra 5 degrees of safety margin to play with. Without it, you lowside.
Take a track day course and then see if you still think the same. No point in repeating others about bike lean and amount of contact patch. Maintaining a safe margin of error while working on increased corner speed is more of a concern to me than the size of my chicken strips. Think of leaning off properly as a way to improve your traction and therefore safety, so long as you don't put yourself so far out that you aren't able to react to an unknown around the corner.
Oh yeah, and don't bunch up. Give yourself time to react.
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Go on, please point out exactly what I wrote wrong and why those missing bits of information would refute anything I said involving traction.
Also, please avoid using logical fallacies such as the red herring fallacy that you just did.
P.S. Contact patch requires weight. Weight is affected by force. Figure out how this works and you'll understand why the contact patch would decrease as you lean over.
I'm not a track guy so I'm no expert, but I saw this video and thought Wtf is he doing, do all track guys look that ridiculous? His body was leaning farther than he was even taking his bike...
If that is what guys at the track do, then I'll stick to my motocross racing because that is just foolish lol
Yes, the fastest guys including the crazy MotoGP and WSBK riders are not on the bike at all. Though those guys end up tucking body parts in but the weight shift is similar.
I have no clue how the hell you motocross guys do it tbh lol I've seen a few motocross dudes at track days in red group riding motocross style with the tires screeching....it is very impressive.
Well said!!
油井緋色;2574645 said:
I hear ya! I have tons of respect for all pro athletes and no doubt if they are hanging off the bike they are doing so for a specific reason. But I mean, this video contains no pros and there is certainly no reason to hang off the bike like that.
Even when I ride street now I see riders I'm riding with hanging off on the off ramps. Ridiculous really, theres no reason my bike won't lean just as far as them and I don't have to hang off anything to do it!
The point of my rant: If you're hanging off your bike on the street (regardless of your skill), you look like an idiot :/
That said, if people see me ride my streetbike they probably think I look ridiculous too, I'm that guy with my foot out on my supersport when making u-turns in parking lots LOL (offroad habits are incredibly tough to break!). But I used to offroad my GSXR...no issues!
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Like I said to someone else earlier....I enjoy looking like an idiot lol
Though there are objective reasons why leaning off should be done; the reasons are not profound enough to make the difference between a crash and not crashing except in extreme edge cases.
油井緋色;2574643 said:
Here are the parts you said that are wrong:
油井緋色;2574643 said:
油井緋色;2574615 said:
Contact patch is not decreased when you are leaned over. In fact, it is the opposite - up to 45 degrees. Here is a good picture showing the footprint of the tire at various lean angles, taken from an article from Inside Motorcycles (a Canadian publication to boot!):
Here is the original article: http://www.insidemotorcycles.com/blogs/item/544-static-and-dynamic-trail-the-subtleties.html
In a follow-up article, it is succinctly stated:
Thanks @Lightcycle for the clarification. I didn't know that and was using traction and contact patch as interchangeable terms.
I am, however, still fairly convinced that there is more traction up right than banked over. Clearly my point wasn't illustrated due to my own errors.
I am, however, still fairly convinced that there is more traction up right than banked over. Clearly my point wasn't illustrated due to my own errors.
Depends on the profile of the tire so the contact patch could be sizable as above.
But you have lateral forces acting when banked so that automatically costs you traction. Even if the contact patch was the same the traction would be less.
Physics on a tire at speed and on an angle is mind boggling.
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