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  1. #161

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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post
    I read today that he plans on cancelling the sex-ed curriculum.

    Wow. If this isn't pandering to a tiny sliver of the (not surprisingly, Toronto) population, I don't know what is, and it can only lead me to believe that he's yet another one of those crying about it without actually having read it.

    I guess kids will just have to go back to learning about sex the "Old fashioned" way - via the internet and schoolyard conversations. Both are clearly known options for then getting valid factual information, after all.

    One more reason for me to not vote for him. I hope someone with some sensibility gets to him on this topic and has a grown up conversation about it.
    This is how campaigning works, you have to throw a little red meat around to appease your base AND to suck the oxygen from the room.

    Repealing the 'sex ed' part isn't removing sex ed entirely, its rolling back some the controversial parts that are troublesome to faith groups -- the birds, bees, and STDs will still be there.

    I don't think this is a sliver of the population, there are a lot of Muslim and Christian faiths that are not onside. I'm pretty sure the entire Catholic school system in Ontario has only paid lip service to the new curriculum, they deliver the controversial part of "sex ed" through the moral lens of the Catholic church. To understand their approach, read this: https://www.catholicregister.org/hom...hurch-teaching
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  2. #162

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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggsy View Post
    ....I hope that there is some sort of abortion education, included,
    nothing that would attempt to discourage women from ever having one, but something that would encourage the use of birth control beforehand.
    I believe that abortions are intrusive, and more costly than preventative methods, and while it should always be an available option, it shouldn't become a de-facto and common method of birth control.
    I think you are a perfect example of what people are complaining about. You have a view on abortion and birth control that is important to you for your reasons, you have views on how that might be conveyed in the context of your faith and family. Others may have completely different views -- all of them correct in one way or another. What Wynne did was pick her view (or at least a view she supports) without consulting or consideration some pretty big stakeholders.

    If it wasn't a big deal, it wouldn't be consuming so much oxygen.
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  3. #163
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
    I've always thought a party that had fiscal conservatism and social liberalism would be something very appealing to a sizeable segment of the population. The Liberal party, particularly the Paul Martin finance minister years, were an example of that.
    we did have that
    the Federal PC party

    unfortunately they were eaten by the prairie rednecks
    and lost their eastern sensibilities

    provincially we used to have that too
    anyone remember Bill Davis wading into social policy BS?

  4. #164
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    How about the part where as leader of the opposition he just does his JOB. Forms a strong team that could form a government, thats what keeps the current governing party in check. He doesn't need a platform, he shouldn't have one, he should shut the f up and do the job he was selected for. Leader of the opposition.
    Strong opposition is whats lacking in every phase of government.
    Stop grandstanding and do your job Doug.

  5. #165
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post
    I think you are a perfect example of what people are complaining about. You have a view on abortion and birth control that is important to you for your reasons, you have views on how that might be conveyed in the context of your faith and family. Others may have completely different views -- all of them correct in one way or another. What Wynne did was pick her view (or at least a view she supports) without consulting or consideration some pretty big stakeholders.

    If it wasn't a big deal, it wouldn't be consuming so much oxygen.
    That brings up a good point. The curriculum is and needs to be based upon goals. The goals need to be stated. They also need to be backed up by research, and the curriculum tweaked when it isn't reaching the goals.


    Quote Originally Posted by JavaFan View Post
    we did have that
    the Federal PC party

    unfortunately they were eaten by the prairie rednecks
    and lost their eastern sensibilities

    provincially we used to have that too
    anyone remember Bill Davis wading into social policy BS?
    Green party? I remember the big blue machine.
    Ignorance is curable, Apathy not so much, but I don't care, I'll try anyway.

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  6. #166

    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post
    I think you are a perfect example of what people are complaining about. You have a view on abortion and birth control that is important to you for your reasons, you have views on how that might be conveyed in the context of your faith and family. Others may have completely different views -- all of them correct in one way or another. What Wynne did was pick her view (or at least a view she supports) without consulting or consideration some pretty big stakeholders.

    If it wasn't a big deal, it wouldn't be consuming so much oxygen.
    Abortion is perfectly legal in this country and as such should be talked about seriously, along with alternatives in a comprehensive sex ed class. Not talking about it is pandering to a minority that "may" be offended. In fact how is "not talking about uncomfortable things" not similar to what some on the rabid left are trying to do with free speech on university campuses? ie, trying to muzzle a conversation that may be uncomfortable to them?

  7. #167
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggsy View Post
    That brings up a good point. The curriculum is and needs to be based upon goals. The goals need to be stated. They also need to be backed up by research, and the curriculum tweaked when it isn't reaching the goals.




    Green party? I remember the big blue machine.
    The Big Blue Machine was perfect Ontario government
    they were never in the news
    fiscal responsibility was the focus
    no time wasted on social engineering
    but that was a different time
    trying to get that back
    is the same as MAGA simple mindedness eh?

    and as for abortion
    anyone that doesn't have a uterus
    should keep their yap shut

  8. #168
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaFan View Post
    The Big Blue Machine was perfect Ontario government
    they were never in the news
    fiscal responsibility was the focus
    no time wasted on social engineering
    but that was a different time
    trying to get that back
    is the same as MAGA simple mindedness eh?

    and as for abortion
    anyone that doesn't have a uterus
    should keep their yap shut
    and their wallet open
    fify.

    And discussing the issue in a civil manner is a good thing.
    There should be ways to reduce the numbers without abrogating anyone's rights.
    They may be hard both physically and emotionally on a person, and we may need more support in place.

    As for the machine, we were probably orange at that time.
    Ignorance is curable, Apathy not so much, but I don't care, I'll try anyway.

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  9. #169
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    I like the fix
    kids born into instability
    need support

    and maybe if more gals knew it was there
    they'd would be willing to not kill their baby
    but it still needs to be their choice

  10. #170
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaFan View Post
    I like the fix
    kids born into instability
    need support

    and maybe if more gals knew it was there
    they'd would be willing to not kill their baby
    but it still needs to be their choice
    How about a fix of using rubbers, or pills beforehand? It's something that should be discussed.

    and technically, if we're going to go down the everyone else shut up road,
    it should be limited to people who've had abortions then, shouldn't it?
    Ignorance is curable, Apathy not so much, but I don't care, I'll try anyway.

    Everyone likes to think that they may be the smartest person in the room, but sometimes that only occurs when we're alone!

  11. #171

    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    People tend to pile on the teachers in these arguments but I've never met a teacher who didn't have his/her students interests at heart. You couldn't last in the job if you didn't. The only time I've ever heard of teachers enforcing their views (to young kids) has been from Catholic schools.

  12. #172
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by caboose56 View Post
    I predict another Liberal majority.

    All the PCs need is a reasonable platform and a decent candidate.... and they’ve failed again.
    All they really needed was a reasonable candidate and to learn to keep their big mouths shut. They've flushed the last three elections and I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't vote for Ford.
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  13. #173

    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan View Post
    All they really needed was a reasonable candidate and to learn to keep their big mouths shut. They've flushed the last three elections and I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't vote for Ford.
    Half of Ontarians "disapprove" of Ford as leader of the PC party. According to the same polling, the PCs would still have a majority but that could change with every word that comes out of Drug's mouth.

    http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2...ip-march-2018/

    "Half (BTM2: 48%) say they are less likely to vote PC in the next election with Doug Ford as leader, with most of those (41%) saying they are much less likely to do so.

    2 in 10 (TOP2: 20%) say they are more likely to vote PC in the next election because of the election of Doug Ford as leader, with one sixth (15%) doing so strongly.

    One-quarter (26%) say they are neither more likely nor less likely to vote PC because of Doug Ford.

    Few say they are unsure.

    Respondents most likely to say they are less likely to vote for the PCs because of Doug Ford include those aged 55-64 (52%), females (50%), living in Eastern Ontario (52%), Toronto (51%), the 905 (49%), and supporting the Ontario Liberals (74%). One quarter (23%) of PC supporters say they are less likely to vote PC because of Doug Ford. Respondents most likely to say they are more likely to vote for the PCs because of Doug Ford include those aged 35-54 (28%) or 65+ (25%), living in Eastern Ontario (21%) or Toronto (24%), and supporting the PCs (40%).
    "

    That synopsis should make the PCs nervous. This is Drug's to lose and he may well do it...
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  14. #174
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    I'm pretty sick of having to vote for the least-bad choice. In my case ... NDP, Nope, Never. Liberal, Nope, they need to go (should have gone before McSquinty, 10+ years ago). PC, Doug Ford or not, is IMO the least-bad way to kick Wynne out, then just hope that Doug Ford doesn't make too many irreversible bad decisions. We will already be suffering for years for irreversible bad decisions that the Liberals made - most notably those relating to Ontario Hydro.

    I said the same thing about the US Federal election a couple of years ago. I can't stand Donald Trump, but in view of the alternative, I can't fault those who voted for him.

    In a provincial position, Doug Ford is not able to do as much damage as in a federal position, and a protectionist stance like Trump is taking would be suicidal here, and in any case, that is not within provincial jurisdiction.

  15. #175

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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian P View Post
    I said the same thing about the US Federal election a couple of years ago. I can't stand Donald Trump, but in view of the alternative, I can't fault those who voted for him.
    Hilary was far from perfect, but at least she could string together a coherent thought.
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  16. #176

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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.K View Post
    Hilary was far from perfect, but at least she could string together a coherent thought.
    Trump was a train wreck about to happen. Clinton was the kiddie choo choo train ride at the county fair. Pay your money to go around in circles never getting anywhere.

    I really don't know what was worse or which one Ford will copy.

  17. #177

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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by jc100 View Post
    People tend to pile on the teachers in these arguments but I've never met a teacher who didn't have his/her students interests at heart. You couldn't last in the job if you didn't. The only time I've ever heard of teachers enforcing their views (to young kids) has been from Catholic schools.
    Most teachers I have run into recently were interested on how much they make and how many days they get off. If they were so interested in their little ones they might consider how much debt the little ones will carry thanks to bloated salaries.

  18. #178

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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by nobbie48 View Post
    Trump was a train wreck about to happen. Clinton was the kiddie choo choo train ride at the county fair. Pay your money to go around in circles never getting anywhere.

    I really don't know what was worse or which one Ford will copy.
    I'd rather go nowhere than the scene of the accident, but I guess I'm just not as "adventurous" as some.
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  19. #179
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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggsy View Post
    How about a fix of using rubbers, or pills beforehand? It's something that should be discussed.

    and technically, if we're going to go down the everyone else shut up road,
    it should be limited to people who've had abortions then, shouldn't it?
    sure birth control is preferable to terminating a fetus
    only people who don't agree with BC are religious zealots
    if they don't want their kids taught about it
    they can homeschool them
    then take care of the of kids that come from the teen baby mommas that didn't know about BC

    and yeah there's nothing wrong with some abstract discussion of the subject
    even from penis owners

    the keep their yap shut part I was referring to
    was the douchecanoes that harass women with threats and signs and crap
    usually the Family Values fookheads, 2nd amendment types

  20. #180

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    Re: Return of Ford Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by jc100 View Post
    Abortion is perfectly legal in this country and as such should be talked about seriously, along with alternatives in a comprehensive sex ed class. Not talking about it is pandering to a minority that "may" be offended. In fact how is "not talking about uncomfortable things" not similar to what some on the rabid left are trying to do with free speech on university campuses? ie, trying to muzzle a conversation that may be uncomfortable to them?
    Nobody has suggest muzzling free speech or withholding facts, were talking more about muzzling the democratic process. Canada is a country of exclusivity, we embrace different opinions and customs and look for was to accommodate diversity.

    In this situation the subject matter introduced into the curriculum is certainly factual, no one is doubting that. The complains are delivering content through Wynne's lens, without concern or consultation on how that impacts some very large faith groups. She could have engaged, included and accommodated other views on the subject and we could have the same content covered without the controversey. She didn't. Instead she rammed her ideas thru which seems to be creating some opportunities for her opponents today.
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