|
|
|
Return of Ford Nation
- Thread starter Baggsy
- Start date
Probably on the reserves
Selling off the LCBO could be the second dumbest move ever.
I visit Alberta a half dozen times a year. They privatized booze. The taxes dont go away, the selction goes down and the prices all went up.
How is this possible you say? Well the LCBO may be the largest buying group in the world booze market. The selection is nearly second to none. Remove that buying power and it goes away. Have 100 independents trying to source through distributors, since they can handle the volume to move containership loads of Hieneken. Costs increase.
They wont lower the taxes, the largest portion in cost. Selection will suffer and costing will go up. Free market my arse. Joe Budweiser may feel fine, I can get my beers at the Sobey , yippee for you. Try and find a nice Brunello , sure its in the Brunello aisle.....
I visit Alberta a half dozen times a year. They privatized booze. The taxes dont go away, the selction goes down and the prices all went up.
How is this possible you say? Well the LCBO may be the largest buying group in the world booze market. The selection is nearly second to none. Remove that buying power and it goes away. Have 100 independents trying to source through distributors, since they can handle the volume to move containership loads of Hieneken. Costs increase.
They wont lower the taxes, the largest portion in cost. Selection will suffer and costing will go up. Free market my arse. Joe Budweiser may feel fine, I can get my beers at the Sobey , yippee for you. Try and find a nice Brunello , sure its in the Brunello aisle.....
Somehow they manage fine in the USA without a government run nanny oversight system - I have been in liquor stores in the USA that dwarf any LCBO in the province.
The LCBO could even keep the sourcing and core warehousing system if they want (their central warehouse in Whitby is walking distance from where I work, and I've delivered there over the years) but ditch the retail side entirely, or at least open up private sector competition.
Last edited:
When i lived in quebec i liked their system.
You had grocery stores and corner stores for beer and wine and cheap hard liquor. You'd find some craft beer stuff in there too depending on the cornerstore but you'd also have loads of 2-4s, refrigerated and ready to go for your party (open for sale till 11pm)
You had the government owned SAQ for a more LCBO-ish system:
SAQ express open 7 days a week till 10pm with a smaller choice of booze (beer, wine, hard liquor)
SAQ Classique open more "regular hours" with a wider selection of booze
SAQ Select for the more fancy stuff
SAQ Depot (there's only one if i'm not mistaken) for the warehouse, sometimes found some pretty awesome deals there.
So you had multiple sources of alcohol and everybody was happy, alcohol is cheaper there in general too.
You had grocery stores and corner stores for beer and wine and cheap hard liquor. You'd find some craft beer stuff in there too depending on the cornerstore but you'd also have loads of 2-4s, refrigerated and ready to go for your party (open for sale till 11pm)
You had the government owned SAQ for a more LCBO-ish system:
SAQ express open 7 days a week till 10pm with a smaller choice of booze (beer, wine, hard liquor)
SAQ Classique open more "regular hours" with a wider selection of booze
SAQ Select for the more fancy stuff
SAQ Depot (there's only one if i'm not mistaken) for the warehouse, sometimes found some pretty awesome deals there.
So you had multiple sources of alcohol and everybody was happy, alcohol is cheaper there in general too.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The LCBO is a complex business case, not the kind you draw up on the back of a napkin. A simpler way to do this is poll economists -- asks them whether the economy benefits more or less when gov't operates business that are well established in the private sector.
I doubt any economist would tell you privatizing the LCBO would have a negative economic outcome, the political will to privatize the LCBO is the main obstacle.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
You can't compare a cow-dung province to Ontario -- how about NY or Quebec - our neighbours? Both do it better.
Also remember that for every Brunello, there's a dozen great beverages that can't crack a monopoly controlled market -- LCBO means less choices, not more. Visit Gates in Buffalo https://gatescircleliquor.com, then tell me which LCBO has a selection of 400 Whiskeys, 125 Vodkas, 75 Rums, 70 Tequilas.... 650 Reds, 350 Whites....
Ok that seems reasonable. I’d settle for reading some sort of detailed analysis from some qualified people with an open mind.
I hope you understand that I’m not dead set against privatizing the LCBO. I have questions and concerns id like to have addressed before getting on board.
sburns
Well-known member
Then if they have this buying power why can't they get better pricing on alcohol and pass it along to the consumer? Because it is a monopoly perhaps?
I would have to believe Walmart would be larger then them. Have you seen the area and selection of alcohol at one of the stores on the states, like the size of a LCBO within a store.
Not everyone cares for these bouquet selections they just want a case of beer or a decent bottle of wine for a good price without being raped.
I laugh and cry when I go just south of the boarder to Buffalo and see "imported" beer Labatts Blue for so cheep.
Sent from the moon!
In Barcelona you can get a beer or glass of wine from a sidewalk burger guy. But guess what, we don't live in Spain! We also dont live in the USA, another foreign country so comparing what goes on there is a bit futile. Makes for a fun story.
Yes I've been in US shops, I stop at Premier in Orchard Park every second weekend going to ski Ellicottville , its the size of a CTC store, and all booze at really great prices. But its in another country, I'm limited on what i can bring home effectively. Walmart selection is just fine for Joe Budweisser guy, both kinds of wine, red and white.
So Ontario is my option, and maybe Quebec has a better model, less provincial tax? But Ontario will never (imho) give up the taxable portion of booze, is beer at the grocer here cheaper than the LCBO? Is a bottle of red better at the grocery giant Lowblaw than at the LCBO? no not at all.
I listened to the pundants , get beer in the corner store it will be cheaper than the union goon shops, shop around the LCBO. Looks like the same pricing to me.
Yes I've been in US shops, I stop at Premier in Orchard Park every second weekend going to ski Ellicottville , its the size of a CTC store, and all booze at really great prices. But its in another country, I'm limited on what i can bring home effectively. Walmart selection is just fine for Joe Budweisser guy, both kinds of wine, red and white.
So Ontario is my option, and maybe Quebec has a better model, less provincial tax? But Ontario will never (imho) give up the taxable portion of booze, is beer at the grocer here cheaper than the LCBO? Is a bottle of red better at the grocery giant Lowblaw than at the LCBO? no not at all.
I listened to the pundants , get beer in the corner store it will be cheaper than the union goon shops, shop around the LCBO. Looks like the same pricing to me.
sburns
Well-known member
Yes quite aware of all those places and how beer etc can be purchased.
Have you been to Mexico they have drive through stores you can buy beer and alcohol.
Fun but scary stories.
All what you said just proves how messed up it is here and how our heavy handed government (babysitting) is too involved which only adds to the cost of the product, and they reap in taxes and we take it up the ***. The whole point of the monopoly is not to give it up.
Speaking of Mexico I use to know someone working at the big distillery down there and they mentioned how much of a pain in the *** it was to deal with the LCBO with all the over the top requirements. Just ridiculous, and they mostly were not interested because of all the extra costs, but more so the stupidity of it.
Anyway it's beer and wine for F-sakes not some nuclear substance.
Have you been to Mexico they have drive through stores you can buy beer and alcohol.
Fun but scary stories.
All what you said just proves how messed up it is here and how our heavy handed government (babysitting) is too involved which only adds to the cost of the product, and they reap in taxes and we take it up the ***. The whole point of the monopoly is not to give it up.
Speaking of Mexico I use to know someone working at the big distillery down there and they mentioned how much of a pain in the *** it was to deal with the LCBO with all the over the top requirements. Just ridiculous, and they mostly were not interested because of all the extra costs, but more so the stupidity of it.
Anyway it's beer and wine for F-sakes not some nuclear substance.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The way I look at is is this:
1) Gov't does nothing as efficiently as the private sector because they operate without profit motive or competition. If costs go up, oh well, prices go up.
2) I believe the gov't ought to be transparent when reporting taxes. Ontario disguises tax as 'dividends' from the LCBO. This is quite misleading to taxpayers.
3) No competition, no incentive to innovate. Suppliers have limited abilities to drive sales through market promotions and discounting. A new distiller can't come in and offer price promotions to gain market share or as a volume over price selling strategy. Consumer savings, revenue neutral to gov't.
4) Major retailers have SG&A rates that are about 5x lower than the LCBO. The price of booze for you and me could easily drop by 15% or more while maintaining the current gov't revenues just through distribution and retail effeciencies.
The loss of good jobs is irrelevant as most of the LCBO workforce is close to minimum wage, the current economy in Ontario can easily absorb these workers. The private sector booze business would need a lot of them, the rest by the uptick created by making more money available for consumer spending. The LCBO sunshiners would be hurt (and there are a lot of them).
Last edited:
Mad Mike
Well-known member
LCBO part time seasonal wage is $15.46/hr, or about $1.46 above minimum wage. Loblaws and Walmart vary more by location, but they are about the same in Ontario.
Why should LCBO employees (or for that matter any gov't employee) be entitled to make more than their peers doing the same job in the private sector?
No, but I've been to a drive-thru on Pine St. in Niagara Falls NY many times. It was a warehouse. You pulled up front, honked, the roll-up door would open, and you pulled in. All the beer was on skids. You told the guy what you wanted, he'd get it, put it in your trunk (required for some reason), paid him, the back roll-up door opened, and you drove out.
Not quite. They increased the amount of gold on their parachutes in case the PCs win and they all get ****-canned.
|
|
|
|
|