Engineering fails in the MC world. | GTAMotorcycle.com

Engineering fails in the MC world.

Wingboy

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Everyone knows that buying a bike in it's first year of production can be a gamble sometimes.But you would think they would have learned their lesson.Looks like Honda has done it again with the 2018 GL1800.Ridden at a sedate touring pace,the bike is probably fine,but if an owner decides to wick it up,the front suspension is going to be totally at it's limit.
I'm not a fan of Traxxion Dynamics at all.I think they have sold thousands of full suspension kits to owners that didn't need them.But in the video he has a real point with the new GL1800.He is already modifying them and they have only been on the market a few weeks.
Honda should have learned from their past mistakes (broken frames,bad robotic welds on the 2001 model) and researched the market more carefully before the release of this one.The bike is overloaded with only a 200lb rider aboard.What about a passenger and travel stuff?

Or....Maybe Traxxion is selling snake oil.

There are lots of other examples like the TL1000 and the R6 with the fake rpm limit.Lets hear yours?
[video=youtube;TTpskmEWSVQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpskmEWSVQ[/video]
 
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I call bullsh*t - the SPRING supports the load, not the damper.
IF there is an engineering issue, its with spring weight and preload or the mechanical advantage of the link arms.
The used damper shown looks like it has a windup style spring preloader, why not use it before jumping to conclusions ?
IF IT WERE MY BIKE and this proved to be an insurmountable problem I'd be looking to somebody like Eibach for an alternate spring before anything else.
 
It sure seems like it needs a much stiffer spring (at least 50%). It only has 4.3" of front suspension travel, based on that video is it running ~2" of sag. That seems crazy, but Honda isn't completely incompetent, so I wonder why they ended up with this solution.

As a side note, the wing without tupperware looks pretty cool.

$
 
The TL1000 shock technically worked, it just sucked compared to a conventional shock. Unless you're talking about the steering damper thing, my memory is fuzzier on that. The GL1800 problem is really weird to me... you'd think that if they were engineering a relatively radical front suspension, they would be scrutinizing it closely. This shouldn't have made it out of the factory
 
The TL1000 shock technically worked, it just sucked compared to a conventional shock. Unless you're talking about the steering damper thing, my memory is fuzzier on that. The GL1800 problem is really weird to me... you'd think that if they were engineering a relatively radical front suspension, they would be scrutinizing it closely. This shouldn't have made it out of the factory

The steering damper,yes.
Traxxion has sold a ton of suspension components to GL1800 owners to "fix" the dreaded steering wobble and generally improve the handling.It was (17 yrs in my garage) a tough bike to take into the twisties,but pretty good for a 900+ lb tourer.I never had any issues after i changed to progressive front springs and tapered roller head bearings.But plenty of people poured a lot of money into theirs.I have asked a few how much it cost to have Traxxion modify theirs,but never got an answer.Hmmmm?
I think Traxxion is just trying to keep his business prosperous by fixing something that isn't broken.Pretty sure his video is faked.
 
"I think Traxxion is just trying to keep his business prosperous by fixing something that isn't broken.Pretty sure his video is faked."
Faked or real, the presenter doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
"I think Traxxion is just trying to keep his business prosperous by fixing something that isn't broken.Pretty sure his video is faked."
Faked or real, the presenter doesn't know what he's talking about.

What is it you're taking issue with?
 
I don't know why some of these guys don't take a minute to properly frame their shots and at least do a run-through of their videos before posting them.
 
You guys are killing me. I would give Max McAllister maybe a tiny bit more credit?
 
You guys are killing me. I would give Max McAllister maybe a tiny bit more credit?

Why ? There are 101 ways to set up suspension wrong.
The first thing I'd do if this were my bike is get a second opinion.
Maybe John Sharrard or Dave Behrend would care to weigh in on this ?
 
I call bullsh*t - the SPRING supports the load, not the damper.
IF there is an engineering issue, its with spring weight and preload or the mechanical advantage of the link arms.
The used damper shown looks like it has a windup style spring preloader, why not use it before jumping to conclusions ?
IF IT WERE MY BIKE and this proved to be an insurmountable problem I'd be looking to somebody like Eibach for an alternate spring before anything else.

He was trying to demonstrate why it is even rideable the way it is delivered. He is not saying the bump stop SHOULD be playing as much of a role as it appears to. I'm sure they would have a shitzillion springs on hand they could swap in, but just changing the spring wouldn't fix the problem of the bump stop eating up a big chunk of the shock's travel, or that the bump stop is not appropriately shaped for the bottom of the shock body. Also given that it had electronic damping adjustment, it probably had electronic preload adjustment as well, though I don't currently know that for a fact
 
. Also given that it had electronic damping adjustment, it probably had electronic preload adjustment as well, though I don't currently know that for a fact

The GW has rear electric preload adjust. It looks to me like the front is not adjustable. If it is manually adjustable, based on what I know about suspension (which is less than many) it shouldn't ship that soft.
 
"He was trying to demonstrate why it is even rideable the way it is delivered."
- How does he know that, there's no mention made of him riding it ?
"He is not saying the bump stop SHOULD be playing as much of a role as it appears to."
- Rewatch the video, that's exactly what he's saying.
"I'm sure they would have a shitzillion springs on hand they could swap in, but just changing the spring wouldn't fix the problem of the bump stop eating up a big chunk of the shock's travel, or that the bump stop is not appropriately shaped for the bottom of the shock body."
- If the spring is sufficiently stiff enough AND the linkage is designed correctly the suspension would reach coil bind before bottoming the shock.
"Also given that it had electronic damping adjustment, it probably had electronic preload adjustment as well, though I don't currently know that for a fact."
- Specs suggest the front shock has electronic damping adjustment only.
 
Meh. I betcha Honda knew what they were doing when they designed that.

The bumper is not just an end-of-travel stop, it also acts like a secondary higher spring rate. Note the tapered and stepped shape of it. The initial compression of that bumper will be concentrated in the tapered part (soft, not much effect) then it will get progressively stiffer as the suspension compresses and the tapered parts flatten out.

The rear suspension of my van has long bump stops that come in contact well before the suspension actually reaches a travel limit. (They're even the same colour, probably same material, and same general shape, just much bigger.) Same purpose ... it progressively adds a higher and higher spring rate as the suspension compresses.

Lots and lots of bikes come original-equipment with dual-spring-rate springs that have a soft spring rate in "extension" and a higher spring rate in "compression" because the coils in the tightly-would part bind up against each other, and that usually happens somewhere near the "design load" - purpose being to have a compliant ride when rolling down the road but also resist excessive brake dive and bottoming.

I doubt if it's an engineering fail.

Keep in mind that this bike is not designed to win MotoGP races ... it's designed to have a plush, compliant, isolated ride quality.
 
Meh. I betcha Honda knew what they were doing when they designed that.

The bumper is not just an end-of-travel stop, it also acts like a secondary higher spring rate. Note the tapered and stepped shape of it. The initial compression of that bumper will be concentrated in the tapered part (soft, not much effect) then it will get progressively stiffer as the suspension compresses and the tapered parts flatten out.

The rear suspension of my van has long bump stops that come in contact well before the suspension actually reaches a travel limit. (They're even the same colour, probably same material, and same general shape, just much bigger.) Same purpose ... it progressively adds a higher and higher spring rate as the suspension compresses.

Lots and lots of bikes come original-equipment with dual-spring-rate springs that have a soft spring rate in "extension" and a higher spring rate in "compression" because the coils in the tightly-would part bind up against each other, and that usually happens somewhere near the "design load" - purpose being to have a compliant ride when rolling down the road but also resist excessive brake dive and bottoming.

I doubt if it's an engineering fail.

Keep in mind that this bike is not designed to win MotoGP races ... it's designed to have a plush, compliant, isolated ride quality.

Thank you for this logical, intelligent response.
 

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