Hybrid Vehicles

SVeezy said:

When it comes to practicality and utility, minivans are hard to beat. Probably the best all around vehicle money can buy.

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That's what I've been finding out. I actually love the utility of it so much that I'm likely to buy another, kids or not.
I like to be able to trailer the dirtbike to events and just crash in the van. No more cold damp tents in spring and fall.

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Brian P said:

The van can also be used to move a bike. Haul bike someplace...ride... drive back.

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In my 3 or so year here I don’t recall Sunny actually posting anything whatsoever related to actually owning or riding a motorcycle.

So I doubt there’s much value in that to him.

And he seems to be at the age where his image/ego must be maintained, hence the paper bag comments.

FWIW we owned 2 minivans long ago - an Astro, and a Montana. Loved the Astro until one day it wouldn’t pass emissions anymore. Bought the Montana to replace it. It was an enormous turd in the long run...but yes, both were very practical in the end.

I miss having my minivan. I'm sitting on it's seat right now(turned the seats into chairs). The SUV just doesn't have the came cargo space for stuff and uses about the same amount of gas.

Riceburner said:

I miss having my minivan. I'm sitting on it's seat right now(turned the seats into chairs). The SUV just doesn't have the came cargo space for stuff and uses about the same amount of gas.

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The Honda Pilot is basically the Odyssey, slightly smaller inside but in SUV form. Similar engine and platform and size and function and utility.

Except the Pilot is way cooler and has 4 wheel drive and you don't need to carry a paper bag to drive one.

SunnY S said:

The Honda Pilot is basically the Odyssey, slightly smaller inside but in SUV form. Similar engine and platform and size and function and utility.

Except the Pilot is way cooler and has 4 wheel drive and you don't need to carry a paper bag to drive one.

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Except that some of us are secure enough that we don't care if we drive a minivan. I sure as hell don't define myself by the vehicle I drive. I'm not the guy to buy an $80k Acura just so nobody sees me in a minivan.
If you are, more power to you I guess.

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nakkers said:

I think I mentioned it before, it would be ideal to have a large vehicle and then a PHEV like the Volt or EV like the Bolt. Just for commuting from St Kitts to Burlington/Hamilton/Toronto and back. And the large vehicle for everything else.

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I am losing track now a bit, but ....... I was looking at lease rates for the Chrysler Hybrid Pacifica. It was not looking bad actually. I think their site was giving me something along 400$/monthly all-in ... 4 years/24000km allowance. No trade-in and it was the TourPlus base model.

I personally, would like to have one good and decent comfortable larger vehicle which can tow and have a plug. In my case, Id' go lease 3-4 years. Pocket the fuel savings (generated against the shorter commutes) and you get to drive a brand new car. My issue is that I cannot easily get out of relatively new car I bought about a year ago (even though I am paying more than 400$/month). Plus, it's a really nice car ... the only problem is doesn't have a plug and it's quite thirsty in city. But simply the cons are nowhere near enough to consider dumping it and take a beating on trade-in.

But I keep looking, you never know who will show up with half decent lease deal and car .... which reminds me I should try the Pacifica, just for kickers, after I try the Outlander.

mxs said:

I am losing track now a bit, but ....... I was looking at lease rates for the Chrysler Hybrid Pacifica. It was not looking bad actually. I think their site was giving me something along 400$/monthly all-in ... 4 years/24000km allowance. No trade-in and it was the TourPlus base model.

I personally, would like to have one good and decent comfortable larger vehicle which can tow and have a plug. In my case, Id' go lease 3-4 years. Pocket the fuel savings (generated against the shorter commutes) and you get to drive a brand new car. My issue is that I cannot easily get out of relatively new car I bought about a year ago (even though I am paying more than 400$/month). Plus, it's a really nice car ... the only problem is doesn't have a plug and it's quite thirsty in city. But simply the cons are nowhere near enough to consider dumping it and take a beating on trade-in.

But I keep looking, you never know who will show up with half decent lease deal and car .... which reminds me I should try the Pacifica, just for kickers, after I try the Outlander.

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Yeah, it’s been a bit of a journey so I’m sure I’ve confused many here.

I’ll have a better idea of what I’m doing at the end of this month.

At first I was looking at cheap and fuel efficient. And then maybe something larger and fuel efficient.

Now I’m at large for carry all but cheap and reliable. Lol.

Thus we are minivan.

The wife doesn’t want to get something too old now. Wants some amenities like a back up camera and Bluetooth for her phone. And it’s a must for me. The Bluetooth part anyways. Lol.




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First stop should be the Chrysler dealer then. Anything new enough to have Uconnect will also be new enough to have the Pentastar engine. Uconnect works well and is easy to use.

Just so you know, Chrysler's gone silly a bit in my opinion and of course claims that the Pacifica Hybrid cannot officially tow (not even 500lbs ... nothing). Of course, the ICE only regular version can .... go figure. I don't think I bought yet a vehicle which can officially tow in Canada, while the same vehicle elsewhere of course is OK to do so. I guess, the towing in Canada is really tougher than anywhere else ... LOL ... I would not generally care if I was purchasing, but do it with a leasing unit would make me a bit less enthusiastic about it.

@Brian P when was the Pentastar powertrain introduced in the minivan line up? Not that you are keeping track of specs for given models? I’m not up to speed on the generational improvements of the platform for Chrysler.

@mxs yes, I had the same issue with VW and the DSG TDI Sportwagen. It was a no go for North America but, voted towing vehicle of the year in Europe several times.

I think it’s a litigation issue and Canada gets lumped in with the USA at times.

And we have a large country with some extreme climate changes and can be hard on vehicles compared to a rainy Island country like England. And that country doesn’t really have HD vehicles like pick ups as daily drivers in many households.

I towed a 12 ft box pop trailer with a Toyota Matrix and it managed just fine.

Would I do it often? No. But, once or twice a year to go camping? Sure.

Since we only have one car payment, we are looking to try and keep it that way.

I’ve explained to my wife, there is a deduction on my pay for the company vehicle for personal use and my net income at the new employer would definitely be higher. So a car payment, insurance and the expenses of it will be covered.

I don’t mind picking up a used machine that has taken the hit on depreciation that is lower mileage.

Of course, buying means taxes on total purchase price. So a lease payment won’t be bad.

But, my trips to London do work out to 20k annually and don’t see that coming down anytime soon.

I’m looking at 400-500 kilometres a week business use. Might be less, could be more.

So I don’t think a lease will make sense.

Then again, I might just ride more for work. Lol. If I can get away with it.

The office is at Bloor and Islington. Not downtown Toronto. A couple days a week won’t be too bad. Underground parking.

I can still expense my mileage and ride right? Guess I’m getting off track from the Hybrid thread now. Sorry.


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Brian P said:

First stop should be the Chrysler dealer then. .

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just be sure to tip toe over the cob webs when you get there, Chrysler group (FCA) had an atrocious year with sales down across the entire line from -15% to the sorry state of Fiat with -88% drop. Jeep was the only bright spot.

Pentastar started in 2011. If you do some digging you'll find that some of the early ones had valve guide issues. Fixed in 2013. The earlier ones that had issues got new cylinder heads under warranty, and any that didn't, if it was going to break, it would have broken by now.

In the 2011-on RT minivans (square shape, not the new Pacifica) the transmission is the 62TE 6-speed. Those started in 2007 although I think the minivans got them a year or two later. There was an upgrade somewhere around 2012 to fix a couple of issues with the earlier ones although generally they have been good. Most common problem: using the wrong transmission fluid! These (and several other late model Chrysler transmissions) use a specific Mopar ATF+4 fluid. Use the wrong stuff (like generic Dexron from the auto parts store) and there WILL be problems.

Might as well look at the Pacifica while you are there. Apparently after the discounts, the PHEV version is less expensive than the non-hybrid version. If you get a "G" license plate (should, on the PHEV version), you can drive in the HOV lanes ...

For info on all things Chrysler, www.allpar.com

It should be for sure cheaper, at least on the paper, since they are eligible to full pop, when purchased or leased for 3 years. I say on paper because I am sure the ICE can be heavily negotiated, where the PHEV not as much. At least usually that is the case, because smaller number of them on the lots.

I participated in the Mitsubishi's demo day today for the launch of Outlander PHEV. Nice car with some interesting driving modes. Seems pretty smart setup what Mitsubishi has going there. The only downsides from drive train is .... a) complexity (they have ICE unit, generator, from el. motor, rear el. motor) ... b) battery is only about 18kWh (realistic avg. range 30km)

Would I buy one? I'd definitely consider it, if I was replacing an aging vehicle with towing requirement, because it can legally tow and seems quite nice to drive. The interior is a bit dated, but still OK in my book. The biggest issue for me is that you are buying a car in 2018 with really 2014 specs, and by that I mainly mean battery size. This is 4th year running model and it shows. The only reason they have succeeded selling more than 100K units is because nobody else has bothered to make a similar car. They had the market for themselves, basically. New model will be coming in two years. Hopefully it will not take them again 4 years to bring it here ....

Just an update - no decision is made and not making one until I have an offer from the new employer and know the specifics.

I have clarified how much road work is involved and is significantly less than what I do now. I could change to involve more but, not to the level I’m doing now.

So I had to really examine what the overall vehicle needs are.

We don’t need a van or big SUV

We do drive a lot.

We do need a configuration for Kids and dogs as we often load up for the beach for short trips, camping and trips to Ottawa. Camping and Ottawa accounts for about 6 trips but, use of the vehicle there and back and a lot while at our destination.

A van would be great. But the reality is it’s huge and chews up a lot of few.

We are on a budget.

When you consider I have a company vehicle supplied and can use it for personal is, expense fuel and maintenance with a small pay deduction that is the equivalent of $300 a month, it’s a pretty good deal.

I’ll know the financial elements of the new job in a week or less.

Bouncing new vs used and what new purchase incentives there are.

Won’t lease since overall use is still very high in the 40,000 annual. And that is with the reduced forecast in driving for the new job.

I believe the new job pays 45 cents per kilometre.

So will the potential bump in salary be washed away with vehicle payments?

The job itself is much more appealing. So I’m not leaving based on financial gain. I simply don’t want to leave at a financial loss.

The quality of life and the job itself is much more gratifying.

We peaked at some local Equinox but, the window sticker had them listed above $40k. We didn’t talk to anyone or really examine them. And none appeared to be Diesel. I’m sure it’s a premium upgrade. The GM website wasn’t very good at building and pricing your own like some brands that allow you to select drive train and trim level.

So I’m looking at vehicles that have a hatch configuration for the dogs in the back. One is medium size boxer and the other is smaller.

The Soul doesn’t do the job and it doesn’t make sense to sell since it’s fairly new and it would be upside down in depreciation.

I was at the auto show and saw various vehicles. Have a few in mind but, can’t set my budget until I have a solid offer from the employer to consider.

The Mazda is way over due for replacement and I’ve dragged my feet replacing it. I didn’t want to order a vehicle and then give notice. I bit the bullet and ordered a Forester with touring trim. Not sure if it will arrive before I leave? Not that is matters any. Lol.




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Makes sense. Subaru = dogs in family... the stats, in North America are staggering in that respect.

Enjoy the car.

mxs said:

Makes sense. Subaru = dogs in family... the stats, in North America are staggering in that respect.

Enjoy the car.

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That’s what my employer is providing me.


I’m looking to quit within a couple of weeks.

Been going over priorities, needs, wants.

Need room for 4 people and two dogs comfortably.

Want decent fuel economy for 40k annual mileage.

Want affordable, we prefer to purchase and avoid a payment.

So, we looked at compact hatchbacks.

Prius V, Ford C Max, VW Sportwagen,

We said no to Volt and Bolt. Volt the dogs don’t fit. Bolt, doesn’t serve the range needed.

We found a C Max and the pups look comfortable in the back. Low mileage and decent sticker. Grabbing the vin to check out any factory work done.

Haven’t pulled the trigger until I have a solid offer from the prospective employer. And if the C Max sells to someone else, so be it.

We will keep looking.

The Prius V felt like a tin can on the highway and the Bluetooth is useless. No one can hear me. Decent utility and rear seating.

The actual seats were not that great.

Saw a couple of them over the weekend, test drove, didn’t pass the mustard with the family. The wife is a big Toyota fan and she was not impressed.

VW is still a possibility with a newer 2017 with low mileage we can purchase outright and have full warranty. And we’ve had two Sportwagens before.

The Ford is better equipped and has higher seating position that the wife likes.

The Equinox Diesel would put us in a monthly payment and we couldn’t find anyone selling for less than $40k.

We just didn’t bother exploring it any further since we could find other options at half the price or less. Sure it would have the utility we want but, we agreed that maybe buying used and running up the mileage is a better approach.

Still shopping and looking at other options.


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There's not a whole lot out there, if you need the space and want efficiency for local driving and ability to long distance drive and with a budget in mind ... The only car I can think of is one I already mentioned. Not sure if you checked it out or not (Outlander). It should not be more than 40K OTD when the rebate is considered, but would put your payments still higher probably than you would have liked. If you are determined to go used, you will have all the ICE options out there, but not so much meaningful hybrid and certainly not one you can plug-in.

I wish there was a way of getting over the towing issue. If the total vehicle weight including towed load was within guidelines what difference would it make? Weight in a trailer is weight not on wheel bearings.

It's either a weasel clause because sir, you really need a 6 liter V-8 4X4 to tow a 500 pound trailer or it's fear of a stupid driver blaming the dealership for the driver's incompetence.

1600 cc Datsun manual tranny towed a 1000 pound boat and trailer. Other than slow on hills no problem.

1300 cc Beetle towed a U-haul pig of a trailer no problem

6 cylinder F-100 towed a 6000 pound sailboat no problem. Trailer had electric brakes that were better than the trucks.

My wife noted that we used to see a lot more boats being towed on the highways. Good or bad?

nobbie48 said:

I wish there was a way of getting over the towing issue. If the total vehicle weight including towed load was within guidelines what difference would it make? Weight in a trailer is weight not on wheel bearings.

It's either a weasel clause because sir, you really need a 6 liter V-8 4X4 to tow a 500 pound trailer or it's fear of a stupid driver blaming the dealership for the driver's incompetence.

1600 cc Datsun manual tranny towed a 1000 pound boat and trailer. Other than slow on hills no problem.

1300 cc Beetle towed a U-haul pig of a trailer no problem

6 cylinder F-100 towed a 6000 pound sailboat no problem. Trailer had electric brakes that were better than the trucks.

My wife noted that we used to see a lot more boats being towed on the highways. Good or bad?

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My money is on profit margins. Removing the ability to tow from any vehicle other than the high profit margin large vehicles is an easy win for the car companies. Less engineering, less liability and more profit all at the same time.