How do you feel about the decline of petrol vehicles? | Page 13 | GTAMotorcycle.com

How do you feel about the decline of petrol vehicles?

there are several advantages, here are the 3 biggest for the common consumer,

-Hydrogen cars can be refuelled as quickly as gas cars. A Bolt takes 9 hours to charge at 240v
-Hydrogen cars travel further than electrics, which is always nice as you can travel farther and longer than wait hours for a charge
-Hydrogen cars don't suffer in the cold like Electrics do. You won't lose range, and can still blast your heater.
-Last but not least, do you really want to go driving around jockeying for a place to plug in everytime you go to malls, businesses, and other establishments? Do you really want to wait hours for your car to charge everytime you head out? In todays hurry up society, it just doesn't make sense.


When the fill station infrastructure starts to come on line, its clear that Hydrogen is the best path to Zero Emission driving for the future.
I hear you, but I don't see enough commercial or political energy flying this direction. Hydrogen solves some EV problems however hydrogen issues are more daunting than that those facing the EV industry. Infrastructure for filling is non-existent and extremely expensive to install, cost of hydrogen at the pump is expected to be 2x gasoline. The power plant itself is costly, to power a small car is forecast to cost $70K!

Expectations for range on EVs is dropping as actual range is increasing. It's taken people some time, but buyers are starting to understand 99% of all urban car trips are less than the range of a modern EV, with the average trip around 10KM. I'm guessing that small urban EVs will be capable of economically replacing their ICE sisters within a few years.
 
There is no doubt in my mind we are impacting the planet with our presence.

However, I think itÂ’s naive to state the world is in trouble from it.






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It is naive, even irresponsible, to say the world is not in environmental trouble right now on many, many fronts due to human activity. Oil is just one of them.
 
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I hear you, but I don't see enough commercial or political energy flying this direction. Hydrogen solves some EV problems however hydrogen issues are more daunting than that those facing the EV industry. Infrastructure for filling is non-existent and extremely expensive to install, cost of hydrogen at the pump is expected to be 2x gasoline. The power plant itself is costly, to power a small car is forecast to cost $70K!

Expectations for range on EVs is dropping as actual range is increasing. It's taken people some time, but buyers are starting to understand 99% of all urban car trips are less than the range of a modern EV, with the average trip around 10KM. I'm guessing that small urban EVs will be capable of economically replacing their ICE sisters within a few years.


as mass adoption begins, prices with tumble, everyone including govt and auto execs agree on this. we already have 2 hydrogen fill stations coming to toronto very soon.

Until that time comes, I still think "today", a proper hybrid is the way to go such as the new Honda Insight with 50+ mpg range. https://automobiles.honda.com/future-cars/insight-hybrid

Electrics cars and options won't get serious until 2020-2022. right now we just have the Bolt. the Volt is just a wallflower brought out since 2011 that nobody is buying and GM is killing soon.

I'd say lets have this same discussion in 2022 and on and I'm fairly confident you will see Hydrogen stations popping up more frequently and the cars to go with them.


having said all this, if they open up a Hydrogen filling station in my area, I'd likely be all over the Hyundai Tucson Hydrogen offer. As a useful 5 seater SUV, It would make a great second vehicle for my runabouts to gym, shopping and stuff. a bargain at only $539 per month cdn, $0 down, and FREE, I repeat FREE FREE FREE hydrogen, FREE maintenance, and FREE auto club service for the duration of the 3 year lease.

http://www.hyundaihydrogen.ca
FAQ http://www.hyundaihydrogen.ca/faq/
 
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The laws of thermodynamics are against hydrogen, and always will be. If the hydrogen comes from electrolysis, it takes 3 times as much electricity to go down the road as an EV will use.
 
It is naive, even irresponsible, to say the world is not in environmental trouble right now on many, many fronts due to human activity. Oil is just one of them.

I haven't posted much in this thread because I've realized how ridiculously retarded, and that is an understatement, most are regarding the impact and severity of the situation.

We can sit here talking about money, benefits, and any opinion or man-made system all we want, but many are missing the big picture.

Mother nature is not man made. Every system, regardless if it is man-made or not, has a certain tolerance for stress. Man-made systems can be changed on the fly by those with power. Systems that were not created by man cannot. The basis of the entire universe, even our bodies, operate on homeostatic principles. It is very ****ing obvious we are stressing (or speeding, depending on your perspective) the hell out of the Earth's homeostatic mechanisms.

And the very first thing that comes to everyone's mind is "How do we make money off this?"

picard-facepalm.jpg


And for the guy who asked what I was expecting from making this thread....I don't know. Because I work with highly analytical people and most of my friends are software developers or scientists (in medicine, research, etc.), I came into this thread with a huge bias assuming what I knew was common knowledge. I'm really ****ing disappointed lol And probably naive.

A part of me hopes that Trump influences other countries to continue stressing the system. If the result of this world wide experiment ends up being catastrophic, and we know this will happen within our life time (well...at least mine and PLau's, I'm not sure how old most of you are), I can sit on my soap box and say "HAHA!"

....But there's no winning then right? Because if the science is right, we all lose.
 
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The laws of thermodynamics are against hydrogen, and always will be. If the hydrogen comes from electrolysis, it takes 3 times as much electricity to go down the road as an EV will use.

Glad to see someone else understands science.

If and when there’s some breakthrough when it comes to producing hydrogen then I’ll be happy to reassess my opinions, and without doubt it could be a very viable and superior method of driving vehicles...once the infrastructure actually reaches the point where it’s realistic.

I see neither (most certainly the latter) of those realities happening in the next decade.
 
Glad to see someone else understands science.

If and when there’s some breakthrough when it comes to producing hydrogen then I’ll be happy to reassess my opinions, and without doubt it could be a very viable and superior method of driving vehicles...once the infrastructure actually reaches the point where it’s realistic.

I see neither (most certainly the latter) of those realities happening in the next decade.

I don't think that is possible either. I also don't think H2 occurs naturally anywhere on Earth? At best we have H radicals that instantly bind to something.
 
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I don't know about dates and uptake rate....but when someone can sell me a vehicle that is in the Camry/Accord size that goes 300kms (approx) and costs 30k (maybe 35k) then the tipping point will have arrived for EVs. right now a plug in hybrid vehicle can hit 900 kms on a tank and costs 35k. But electric vehicle need to eliminate the range anxiety (the vast majority of people don't need a second car that goes more than 300k in a day), and then the cost factor. Musks promises are close...but far from reality at this point. But sign me up at 300kms and $35k.
 
But sign me up at 300kms and $35k.

You can buy that today - the Chevy Bolt. 385KM all electric, and the LT's can be had for the $35K range after the $14K govt rebate.

Yes, it's not exactly the Camry/Accord size you mentioned, but give that a year or so, GM's on the electric warpath now, as are other manufacturers. It's inevitable that your desired vehicle will exist in under 3-4 years at your desired price range.
 
But sign me up at 300kms and $35k.

That's gotta be very close on Tesla 3 with the current rebates. Is that not big enough.
Personally we're looking at long EV range hybrid in a small SUV.


This is I think an excellent combination

Honda’s new plug-in hybrid, the Clarity, will go an estimated 42 miles/67 km on electric power, giving it the second-best range of any plug-in behind only the Chevy Volt.
 
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I thought the Tesla 3 was like 2-3 years out if i ordered one....and the Bolt is too small (besides my personal feelings about the brand).....2 kids in carseats.
 
I thought the Tesla 3 was like 2-3 years out if i ordered one....and the Bolt is too small (besides my personal feelings about the brand).....2 kids in carseats.

Yes, I wouldn't expect to get a base model Tesla Model 3 until sometime mid to late 2019 if you ordered one today.

Check out the Bolt. I've driven one, it's way bigger inside than it looks on the outside. There's other EV options as well but none that touch it's range at this point.

Anyhow, I had to giggle earlier about a comment about how a 50MPH hybrid is "such a better choice" currently. Here's my current stats on my Volt LOL.

voltmpg.jpg


The only reason I'm not over 200MPG / <1L/100KM right now is that I went into Toronto a few days ago and used a few L of gas on the way home. I should be over 450MPG (0.5L/100KM) when I finish this current tank of gas.
 
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Electrics cars and options won't get serious until 2020-2022. right now we just have the Bolt. the Volt is just a wallflower brought out since 2011 that nobody is buying and GM is killing soon.

You are very out of touch and you certainly have not read the thread....Canada is not COTU either.

This is the liste of eligible vehicles for rebates in Ontario alone.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/electric-vehicle-rebate.shtml

New vehicle sales in Norway are 38% EV for instance. You would know much of this if you took the time to read the thread. I've been following the tech for years and even I'm astonished at the pace.
Expect more and more cities to follow Copenhagen's lead and tax ICE vehicles out of existence as they are doing now with an ICE tax of 180% of the purchase price.

JACK STEWART
TRANSPORTATION
12.26.1708:00 AM
AT LAST, THE AGE OF THE ELECTRIC CAR REALLY ARRIVES
https://www.wired.com/story/2018-year-electric-car-video/

and

Tesla Model 3: Thousands of duplicate orders removed | 9 | The Week ...
www.theweek.co.uk/70320/tesla-model-3-price-battery-range-and-reviews/.../8
4 Jan 2018 - Musk added at the time that Tesla could manufacture as many as 100,000 to 200,000 Model 3s next year Current pre-orders stand at around 400,000

You think very wrong about EVs
 
Yes, I wouldn't expect to get a base model Tesla Model 3 until sometime mid to late 2019 if you ordered one today.

Check out the Bolt. I've driven one, it's way bigger inside than it looks on the outside. There's other EV options as well but none that touch it's range at this point.

Anyhow, I had to giggle earlier about a comment about how a 50MPH hybrid is "such a better choice" currently. Here's my current stats on my Volt LOL.

voltmpg.jpg


The only reason I'm not over 200MPG / <1L/100KM right now is that I went into Toronto a few days ago and used a few L of gas on the way home. I should be over 450MPG (0.5L/100KM) when I finish this current tank of gas.

I am strongly considering the Volt as my next car (or ideally something a little larger with that drivetrain).

Once you get much over 50 mpg diminishing returns is rapidly kicking in. Paying much extra for a vehicle to save $0.02/km doesn't make sense to me. For even money (or close to it), I see no downside to a plug-in hybrid. Worst case is you drive it without ever plugging it in and get ~50mpg.

Interesting, Honda Clarity Plug-in hybrid is 40K-14K w 17 kWh battery. That seems to be basically identical to the Volt. I wonder how their availability will be.

EDIT:
Clarity has 181 hp electric motor and combined hp of 212? wth?
 
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Interesting, Honda Clarity Plug-in hybrid is 40K-14K w 17 kWh battery. That seems to be basically identical to the Volt. I wonder how their availability will be.

EDIT:
Clarity has 181 hp electric motor and combined hp of 212? wth?

Do yourself a favour and check out the Clarity, the dealer in Burlington just sold one. It is a near luxury car with Acura levels of refinement and interior, and its a far roomier car.

You won't even remember the Volt existed after you see a Clarity.
 
We had one come in, sold right away. I just can’t get over the insight style rear wheel wells.
a88d3ce15c3cce245bc9bfe4696c5643.jpg
e3f223f33e91bcfe59e65b87391629e9.jpg
 
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We had one come in, sold right away. I just can’t get over the insight style rear wheel wells.



That car in black, blends in much better overall and gives it a sportier look.
 
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We had one come in, sold right away. I just can’t get over the insight style rear wheel wells.
a88d3ce15c3cce245bc9bfe4696c5643.jpg
e3f223f33e91bcfe59e65b87391629e9.jpg

Ugh. In white that is not a pretty car. Reminds me of the crosstour. Much of the time I am deeply concerned about Honda's styling department and how they let such losers get all the way to production. That being said, more interior space is always welcome, the clarity is not ugly enough to take it out of the running.

EDIT:

wth? why wouldn't they run a small heater off the main battery/charger/at least the EV plug?

ENGINE BLOCK HEATER
$250.90($5.65 /mo)
Don't let the cold Canadian winters stop you from enjoying your new car. The addition of the Engine Block Heater will help ensure a smooth start even on the coldest days. Includes Engine Block Heater Bracket Kit.
194448_thumbnail.jpg


Even offering this presents an interesting dilemma that didn't exist in the past. Before a no-start left you stranded (normally at home or work), now you can drive away from safety and get stuck at the side of the road.
 
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I am strongly considering the Volt as my next car (or ideally something a little larger with that drivetrain).

Once you get much over 50 mpg diminishing returns is rapidly kicking in. Paying much extra for a vehicle to save $0.02/km doesn't make sense to me. For even money (or close to it), I see no downside to a plug-in hybrid. Worst case is you drive it without ever plugging it in and get ~50mpg.

Interesting, Honda Clarity Plug-in hybrid is 40K-14K w 17 kWh battery. That seems to be basically identical to the Volt. I wonder how their availability will be.

EDIT:
Clarity has 181 hp electric motor and combined hp of 212? wth?

The Clarity doesn't always run 100% electric even when fully charged - in high demand situations, the engine still starts...that's why the numbers are muddy like that. You can't run around 100% of the time on pure electric like you can with the Volt.

And yes, it's very similar to the Volt in overall statistics. It's priced within about $1000 of the Volt. I think the Volt looks better both inside and out, but YMMV..but I can't hack those fender covers.

But remember, the Volt sucks. Having to hunt for charging stations for any EV is a "horrible inconvenience", and plugging in in your driveway is as well, you'll get bored of it once the novelty wears off. You should just buy a hybrid instead, they get 50MPG ya know. Besides, the battery will fail, hydrogen is the way of the future. Did I miss anything?

But Hondas version of the Volt, well, hold on there. It's A-OK, even though the Clarity is a brand new zero history vehicle, but the Volt has 7 years of history to go with including over 2 years on the current generation. Charging stations are everywhere, you'll love it. And you can charge in your driveway too, it's awesome. It has everything the Volt has, it's actually strikingly the same actually, but it doesn't suck, because Honda. I'm sure it'll be reliable despite only having been on the market for 47 days as well, no question. Track records mean squat.

So I've heard. :rolleyes:

Ultimately, buy whatever you want and what fits your needs, I'm not a brand fanboy who will try to steer you in any direction..but do it based on facts, not silly rhetoric and misinformation.
 

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