June 7 2018 Ontario Election - Page 9



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Thread: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

  1. #161
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by sburns View Post
    I still haven't figured out how government works. I pay it to do things but I have no receipts or description of what they are actually doing with the money.. I am being a little silly here... but actually...

    I don't understand why there isn't more transparency with the government. Like we collect xx taxes used for xx things... etc.
    Maybe there is this info someplace. Not sure I never really looked into it. It just seems like it info isn't forthcoming.
    Let's just say the things that happens in government, if you do in the private sector will land you in jail.
    “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” ―Margaret Thatcher

  2. #162

    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Always, without any chance of it happening otherwise? Really?

  3. #163
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by sburns View Post
    I still haven't figured out how government works. I pay it to do things but I have no receipts or description of what they are actually doing with the money.. I am being a little silly here... but actually...

    I don't understand why there isn't more transparency with the government. Like we collect xx taxes used for xx things... etc.
    Maybe there is this info someplace. Not sure I never really looked into it. It just seems like it info isn't forthcoming.
    I'd say that the yearly budget and economic outlook released by the Ontario Ministry of Finance will cover the bulk of the Province's ins and outs, and it's probably the closest thing to what you're looking for. You won't have all the details, but that's normal when you consider how big the government is and everything it's involved in... all the information for all the Province's activities would be impossible to sort through for any auditor, especially yearly... it's a massive data dump.

    As for transparency, in my experience it's not always good. You get lots of backbenchers that yell a lot but don't understand the issues, sensationalist media, and the peanut gallery that just yells incoherently and blows things out of proportion because they have nothing at stake and just want a show. Generally, people just aren't aware of enough to analyze everything the government does, it's just too complicated for someone with a dayjob and a life to follow and distill, so they get distilled information from various sources that aren't always honest, have an agenda one way or another, or are trying to sell papers/clicks.

    Honestly, I'd be happier if the government just told some people to shut the **** up and got things done regardless of the kicking and screaming of every Tom, Dick, and Harry. There's too much NIMBYism in this province and it makes every little project incredibly expensive, especially in legal and due diligence costs both for gov't and for the private sector.

  4. #164

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by crankcall View Post
    MM I like your thoughts, and I'm on side with all of it however in my view mentioning reducing gov't size in the province, amalgamating school boards and such would get you Hudak'ed
    He talked about trimming civil servants, possibly not realizing the enormous percentage tied to the trough. nurses/doctors/police/teachers/firefighters/town,municipal,city,province workers are all remotely connected and once the fear of cuts comes, right idea or not they vote as a group.
    I hear you and agree you don't directly say your going to hack and slash civil service jobs -- you might say part of your platform is to bring the cost of public sector services in line with the private sector. A few examples showing there is enough fat in the public sector that privatization could increase employment AND reduce costs.

    Liberals could not do this as they are completely dependent on the public sector vote -- in fact they routinely bloat and deliver treats to those blocks right before each election -- and when they don't they lose.

    Conservatives don't capture a big number from these blocks anyway, so the timing might be right. In a year where the NDP is "who?", popularism in vogue, and provincial + federal liberals at low approval ratings -- it just might work. Think about reaching out to the 90,000 workers who just lost their minimum wage jobs -- throw them some red meat. How about small business owners who just swallowed a 20% wage hit? KW approval is about 17%, JT is at an all-time low -- lower than Harper's at the last election.

    Maybe KW and the Liberal's approval is so low that a charismatic PC Leader with a milquetoast platform will be enough. What else do the Conservatives have to offer?

  5. #165

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggsy View Post
    I was less than impressed by the way the Brown situation was handled. I saw it, as a group who saw an opportunity to seize leadership, in spite of the the cost.
    I don't think this is a bad thing - Brown had less charisma than Wynne. I don't know why the PC's overlook charisma -- having a leader that has celebrity-likability is worth a lot of votes. Trudeau, like his father, has and uses that like a magic wand. He won an election on it, he's treated like a rockstar around the globe -- not because of his political well doings, because he's charismatic and photogenic.

    You think a cop crashing his motorcycle in a Harper motorcade would get worldwide frontpage coverage?

  6. #166
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post
    I don't think this is a bad thing - Brown had less charisma than Wynne. I don't know why the PC's overlook charisma -- having a leader that has celebrity-likability is worth a lot of votes. Trudeau, like his father, has and uses that like a magic wand. He won an election on it, he's treated like a rockstar around the globe -- not because of his political well doings, because he's charismatic and photogenic. You think a cop crashing his motorcycle in a Harper motorcade would get worldwide frontpage coverage?
    I both agree and disagree with you. For me Wynne has all the charisma of a crusty compromised condom. It's not inconceivable that some people in the PC caucus were in the know about what was going to go down, and didn't want to waste money promoting Brown. In any case, it looks like more and more of the mainstream political parties are being compromised by special interest groups. Or maybe it's always been that way. After all, Trudeau senior's political leanings were left of the NDP (CCP), so he joined the Liberals, because he wouldn't get elected otherwise. Even Harper was part of a Western special interest group, and did some things that weren't in the entire Country's best interest. My point is, that we're learning more and more about our political system, and how some people are gaming it, but we need to use the information in a good way.
    Ignorance is curable, Apathy not so much, but I don't care, I'll try anyway.

  7. #167
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by RockerGuy View Post
    Let's just say the things that happens in government, if you do in the private sector will land you in jail.
    Oh I know, there is no... and absolutely no accountability for the government wrong doing.

    Just look how Mcginty side stepped that landmine by exiting politics by retiring... f-ing disgraceful, and now we are stuck with a stuck up, stubborn, know it all, who doesn't answer to anyone.

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  8. #168
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    3B dollars is a lot of money. Any kind of industry will land you in jail. If you owe the drug cartel 3B there will be 3M for your head.

    Only in government...
    “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.” ―Margaret Thatcher

  9. #169

    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    You are saying, like we have never heard of the private sector scamming money from people, yet nobody ever landing in jail? It's not just the government ...

  10. #170
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    You are saying, like we have never heard of the private sector scamming money from people, yet nobody ever landing in jail? It's not just the government ...
    I think a lot of what people colloquially call "scams" aren't actually scams; it's just shady stuff that feels wrong or is morally dubious, but not really illegal... people don't always read the fine print. It's hard to get people thrown in jail because they may not have done something that is a clear violation of any given law, as it's written.

  11. #171

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    The difference between private and public sector bad deeds is twofold: the speed at which they are dealt with, and the cost of punishment & restitution.

    Private sector deals with corruption and ineptitude quickly, usually as soon as they figure it out. Punishments are not always grave, but the can be, and restitution is common through penalty or civil action.

    Public sector draws out longer, gets mired in coverups and tends to get settled at election time. There are rarely penalties, punishments or restitution.

  12. #172

    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post
    The difference between private and public sector bad deeds is twofold: the speed at which they are dealt with, and the cost of punishment & restitution.

    Private sector deals with corruption and ineptitude quickly, usually as soon as they figure it out. Punishments are not always grave, but the can be, and restitution is common through penalty or civil action.

    Public sector draws out longer, gets mired in coverups and tends to get settled at election time. There are rarely penalties, punishments or restitution.
    Exactly, that is what happened right after the 2007/2008 collapse. The prisons are filled with white collar private sector bad actors. Glad we are on the same page.

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  13. #173

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    He probably would have won the party leadership. The road to becoming PM would have been a lot tougher. O'Leary is a shrewd business man -- there are likely skeletons in the closet -- his private life and past go full Monte in politics -- he probably saw that as way too damaging to be worth the effort.

  14. #174

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    You can't make up this level of ineptitude. Wynnebag is being gifted a victory lap to steal more of our money.

    "Sources close to Patrick Brown say he never signed a resignation letter and is still leader of the Ontario PC Party, CityNews has learned.

    The sources further claim the party leadership race is invalid and someone in the PC party crafted the resignation letter without Brown’s authorization or signature."

    http://www.680news.com/2018/02/15/pa...leader-source/

  15. #175

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by GreyGhost View Post
    You can't make up this level of ineptitude. Wynnebag is being gifted a victory lap to steal more of our money.

    "Sources close to Patrick Brown say he never signed a resignation letter and is still leader of the Ontario PC Party, CityNews has learned.

    The sources further claim the party leadership race is invalid and someone in the PC party crafted the resignation letter without Brown’s authorization or signature."

    http://www.680news.com/2018/02/15/pa...leader-source/
    I doub't this much matters -- Brown took a direct hit -- whether it's the truth or a well placed Scud missile, his political career is blown up.

    Time to move on. Lets hope the PCs can get something together that can muster more than Wynne's army. Hopefully they learn some lessons from recent political victories. Choose a leader who can speak to a crowd, who can simplify the message on meaningful issues, and who can clearly and in simple terms simply articulate the financial damage caused by Wynne and co.

    I read an interesting stat today -- the Wynne government has lost 330,000 manufacturing jobs in Ontario under her reign - they have added exactly the same number of jobs to the Ontario government payroll, an effective way of neutralizing employment stats, a devastating long ball-and-chain for the Ontario economy.
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  16. #176

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post
    I doub't this much matters -- Brown took a direct hit -- whether it's the truth or a well placed Scud missile, his political career is blown up.
    Agree, but if he challenges the validity of his leadership in court, the cons may go into the election without a clear leader (or with a leader that has some publicly known yet legally unresolved issues).

  17. #177
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post
    I doub't this much matters -- Brown took a direct hit -- whether it's the truth or a well placed Scud missile, his political career is blown up. Time to move on. Lets hope the PCs can get something together that can muster more than Wynne's army. Hopefully they learn some lessons from recent political victories. Choose a leader who can speak to a crowd, who can simplify the message on meaningful issues, and who can clearly and in simple terms simply articulate the financial damage caused by Wynne and co. I read an interesting stat today -- the Wynne government has lost 330,000 manufacturing jobs in Ontario under her reign - they have added exactly the same number of jobs to the Ontario government payroll, an effective way of neutralizing employment stats, a devastating long ball-and-chain for the Ontario economy.
    Yeah, about that. I'm not sure I can vote for a PC party, where it looks like a special interest group is trying to take over. Not that that hasn't happened before.
    Ignorance is curable, Apathy not so much, but I don't care, I'll try anyway.

  18. #178

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    ^^^ ??? What special interest? Educate us.
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  19. #179

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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Brown has apparently entered the leadership race which he says is not a valid race because he is still the leader even though he has been kicked out of the caucus. smh.

  20. #180
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    Re: June 7 2018 Ontario Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post
    I doub't this much matters -- Brown took a direct hit -- whether it's the truth or a well placed Scud missile, his political career is blown up.

    Time to move on. Lets hope the PCs can get something together that can muster more than Wynne's army. Hopefully they learn some lessons from recent political victories. Choose a leader who can speak to a crowd, who can simplify the message on meaningful issues, and who can clearly and in simple terms simply articulate the financial damage caused by Wynne and co.

    I read an interesting stat today -- the Wynne government has lost 330,000 manufacturing jobs in Ontario under her reign - they have added exactly the same number of jobs to the Ontario government payroll, an effective way of neutralizing employment stats, a devastating long ball-and-chain for the Ontario economy.
    It's more that the world is changing and manufacturing is continuing a decades long decline. In the same time period, southwestern Ontario and Toronto became a global tech hub and brought to Canada some of the biggest tech firms in the world. Funny how no one mentions that when tearing down Wynne. (To be fair, I don't think she should take all the credit for that; the same way she shouldn't take the blame for manufacturing moving overseas).

    In Canada, like in every OECD country, the very skilled (in terms of education or expertise) are making a boatload, while those that perform manual labour are struggling (with a few exceptions). This is just a changing global landscape... unless you take Vietnam wages, you're never going to see any true largescale manufacturing here; just boutique or high tech/precision stuff which pays very well, but won't employ 100s of thousands.

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