ABS promotion or ABS deception? | GTAMotorcycle.com

ABS promotion or ABS deception?

Trials

Trials

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I'm taking this to a new thread rather then pollute somebody else's thread, let me just say first off I am not for or against motorcycle ABS provided it works, but so far everything I see being demonstrated as ABS at work is a complete lie. This one for example is an absurdly contrived example, instead of erroneously being called:
"See the difference! Without ABS this motorcycle would crash" it should be called;
'See the difference between locking up only a front wheel and cranking the steering full lock turn vs jerky on and off braking'
or
'See the difference! Without training wheels this scooter could be made to fall down and go boom'
[video=youtube_share;zWFmiSYWfAk]https://youtu.be/zWFmiSYWfAk[/video]
Completely new riders might see this crap and buy into it hook line and sinker, but it is a complete Scam to promote a product in this manor! The promoters of this garbage need a good spanking for being so deceitful and making motorcycle riders out to be complete idiots.

That's my humble opinion, feel free to post your own.
 
I trust qualified engineers

Without them the car you drive would explode killing everyone in it(ICE)

or the airplane you fly in would tear itself apart midflight(turbulence, physics, aerodynamics etc)

Abs doesnt prevent crashes, just greatly reduces the likelyhood in the event of panic brake grab in wet or sketch conditions.
 
Trials said:
I'm taking this to a new thread rather then pollute somebody else's thread, let me just say first off I am not for or against motorcycle ABS provided it works, but so far everything I see being demonstrated as ABS at work is a complete lie. This one for example is an absurdly contrived example, instead of erroneously being called:
"See the difference! Without ABS this motorcycle would crash" it should be called;
'See the difference between locking up only a front wheel and cranking the steering full lock turn vs jerky on and off braking'
or
'See the difference! Without training wheels this scooter could be made to fall down and go boom'
[video=youtube_share;zWFmiSYWfAk]https://youtu.be/zWFmiSYWfAk[/video]
Completely new riders might see this crap and buy into it hook line and sinker, but it is a complete Scam to promote a product in this manor! The promoters of this garbage need a good spanking for being so deceitful and making motorcycle riders out to be complete idiots.

That's my humble opinion, feel free to post your own.
Click to expand...


What is a scam about it? The ABS in that video shows the stopping distance compared to non ABS. Stopping sooner is always better. I will only buy a bike with ABS now that I have had it, well on my 3rd with ABS. When I need to stop I pull as hard as I want, my tires do not lock up and slide and I come to a stop quickly. Does not happen all that often as I think I am generally pretty good at being aware of my surroundings.
 
Had my front lock up twice in one day last year. Both times was at very low speeds, <20km/h, and light braking, in pouring rain. Nothing that should have triggered a lockup, but there it was. Bike stayed upright, but gave me a solid scare and a significant loss of confidence in my bike.

That day changed my mind to being an ABS believer. At the very least, my next touring bike will have it.
 
wonderings said:
What is a scam about it?...
Click to expand...
Read what I wrote again, I'm not debating the possibility that ABS could work, only the means by which it is being promoted.
[video=youtube_share;PNFAsKwCCHw]https://youtu.be/PNFAsKwCCHw[/video]
 
"...and cranking the steering full lock..."

I think that's a natural reaction a rider might have to the front wheel having locked and starting to slide and the bike's beginning to go over.

Motorcycles need their wheels to rotate in order for them to have some semblance of stability and controllability. If you've got the reflexes of Marquez or Rossi perhaps you don't need a tech safety net. For the rest of us, I think it only benefits.

 
Blackfin said:
"...and cranking the steering full lock..."

I think that's a natural reaction a rider might have to the front wheel having locked and starting to slide and the bike's beginning to go over.
Click to expand...

This.

Same scenario in a car. People lose traction and continue to turn their wheel as much as possible to avoid hitting the thing in front of them while jamming on the brakes, which without ABS, they'd have a much higher chance of slamming into the thing in front of them.
 
Neither of my current street bikes have ABS and it doesn't bug me at all. With that said on the street where conditions are always changing and often less then ideal ABS is a very nice thing to have.
 
only had ABS turn on twice with current bike, first to have it
both times in very wet conditions, non-emergency braking

agree that new riders relying on ABS to take care of brake control is no good

I figure the only time I'm really going to be glad I have it
is an emergency stop situation in wet conditions
will keep me upright during maximum braking
to slow enough, then steer around the cager that did something stupid
 
The video is a poor example of ABS at work.

I think in controlled and dry situations that some riders (and I would suggest that this is a small percentage of riders overall) can brake as effectively without ABS as riders on ABS equipped bikes.

In day-to-day riding in the real world, dry or especially wet, most riders will benefit substantially from having ABS to prevent lock up.

I would also say that whether you're in a car or on a bike that unless you practice emergency stops periodically you're probably not going to do it properly when it counts. Having ABS means little if you poke tentatively at the brake pedal in your car or are nowhere near the lockup point on your bike.
 
They left out a scenario, a highly skilled rider modulating his own brakes.
 
Blackfin said:
"...and cranking the steering full lock..."
I think that's a natural reaction a rider might have to the front wheel having locked and starting to slide and the bike's beginning to go over.
...
Click to expand...
And the moment he ran out of skid pad he managed to straighten the wheel and the bikes attitude to vertical :rolleyes: sorry, I don't by that!

Give me that same bike and an air pump and I guarantee I could make a video showing it stopping shorter without the ABS, would that prove the ABS failed to perform or would it only prove that the results can be intentionally altered. The commercial is as fake as using photoshop to sell pimple remover!
 
RockerGuy said:
They left out a scenario, a highly skilled rider modulating his own brakes.
Click to expand...

Here's another (rare) scenario...

Back wheel washes out. Rider applies front brake.

Guess what's about to happen? If the ABS is made correctly, it will stop the front brake before somebody gets launched.
 
I for one don't like it very much when commercials fake stuff to promote a product.
Again, the intention of the thread was not to solicit opinions or experiences on the merits or demerits of ABS, the point is the lack of scientific procedure in the way the product is being commercially promoted to people who in a vast number of cases have no idea how to ride a motorcycle and this stuff is contrived to suggest it is a life saver, people who frequently don't know otherwise also include insurance underwriters and the authors of government legislature.

In the big picture one concern is that riders will rely on nanny features instead of learning how to properly operate a motorcycle! What is that rider going to do when the ABS stops working as intended, would they even know? Let's say ANY form of ABS does become mandatory on every new motorcycle, should we forget about training new riders how to correctly use motorcycle brakes and just train them to slam on both binders and let the ABS do it's magic?
 
ReSTored said:
The video is a poor example of ABS at work.
Click to expand...
I say the video is a reasonable example of ABS at work and a horribly contrived example of Non-ABS at work!
 
RockerGuy said:
They left out a scenario, a highly skilled rider modulating his own brakes.
Click to expand...
Yes, a highly skilled rider running lap after lap over the same, known, piece of asphalt will be able to out-brake an otherwise equal bike equipped with ABS. First try, on a random piece of asphalt, with random debris/conditions, with unknown tire temperatures, with an unknown pucker factor due to some "surprise" ... I would place my bet with ABS.

In nearly 30 years of street riding, I've never had a bike with ABS, and the "surprises" have diminished with experience, but ABS will be on my wishlist for my next bike. Not necessarily the deciding factor, but certainly a strong consideration.
 
Last edited:
Trials said:
I for one don't like it very much when commercials fake stuff to promote a product.
Again, the intention of the thread was not to solicit opinions or experiences on the merits or demerits of ABS, the point is the lack of scientific procedure in the way the product is being commercially promoted to people who in a vast number of cases have no idea how to ride a motorcycle and this stuff is contrived to suggest it is a life saver, people who frequently don't know otherwise also include insurance underwriters and the authors of government legislature.

In the big picture one concern is that riders will rely on nanny features instead of learning how to properly operate a motorcycle! What is that rider going to do when the ABS stops working as intended, would they even know? Let's say ANY form of ABS does become mandatory on every new motorcycle, should we forget about training new riders how to correctly use motorcycle brakes and just train them to slam on both binders and let the ABS do it's magic?
Click to expand...

I am reasonably convinced that for almost any rider on the street ABS is a good thing. Even the best rider in the world isn't constantly at peak mental focus with hot tires on the street. I agree that annoying marketing makes things worse.

I would like to have better feedback to the rider to keep people from relying on ABS (similar to a stick shaker in a plane). Something that makes it very clear what is happening and letting you know that you are riding beyond traction limits. I don't know what the right mechanism is for this feature (probably not light, either noise or vibration would work).
 
This is the best one I know of. It's the same C-ABS I have and you have two bikes the same ..one with one without and all expert riders and at 80 mph.

The tech has only gotten better.


[video=youtube;X6kO6ltk3a0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0[/video]
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