Who's At Fault?

Roadghost said:

Famous landmark Canadian case: If the mailman slips and breaks his arm on your property because you didn't shovel the pathway...

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I find this very interesting...so few words set a major precedent...and the vast majority of Canadians agree with it. Is there a case number? There is nothing different about my case. Any business owner should be required to walk the perimeter of his / her business and make sure it's free of obstacles / obstructions that present a danger. And if that isn't written into law, it should be. It's common decency and common sense.

MLadin said:

It's common decency and common sense.

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I would think the door swings both ways on common sense. You are accountable for reversing into an object that you should have noticed before you got in the car or while backing up. I would be wary of arguing that in court.

MLadin said:

The $800 is chump change. It's the guys attitude that's getting him sued. Some people just don't give a flying F about anything. He's one of them. When someone shows you that kind of attitude, it escalates situations that could have been handled better. What if a rider did do an endo over the curb and you were reading in the obituaries about how yet another rider was killed in Wasaga Beach? This guy shouldn't be in business. He's already half way out

OEM Aero kits for 4G eclipses are in high demand. There are none. The guys on Club 4G would give a testicle for one. My car is a rare colour as well...

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

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You backed up 30+ feet when you had many other safer options and hit a 6 inch wide piece of concrete that was 3 to 4 inches outside of a painted yellow line. Poor judgement on your part.

You state that the parking lot is extremely busy and you had to back up this way... yet there are no cars coming in and out during any of your videos. Doesn’t help your case.

As previously stated, the damage to your bumper doesn’t match up to what you hit and how you hit it. You might still have hit it even if the curb was 3 inches further back.

Don’t expect to win in court.

Don’t claim it under insurance as they will find you partially at fault and jack up your rates.

Stop going on about if a motorcycle would have hit it...

Go get the car fixed and move on.

MLadin said:

I didn't report it to the insurance company meme, $500 deductible wouldn't be worth the $780 fix. But I still can report it. It might be a better route to go. I'm thinking this small claims attorney might respond a little differently to a major insurance company's attorneys.

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I doubt that they would even attempt to fight for you.

I was pointing out that you seem to be doing this from a legal standpoint.

Did you also realize from a contractual standpoint you are obligated to report it to your insurance company?

MLadin said:

Did you read any of my comments? The curb was left there unbeknownst to me. He admitted moving it in the winter of 2016 and it was still sitting there in the June of 2017.

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My point was that you used the wash weekly for months without a problem or noticing the potential of a problem.

You say that the $800 isn't the reason for the fuss but rather the owners attitude. Kudos for that.

I don't know if there are any written legal standards of care for such properties but if you go into construction sites run by reputable companies you have to have safety credentials or take a course and usually you are told to report any risk regardless of your involvement. Trip / fall injuries are one of the most common injuries and the protruding curb would IMO be flagged.

Obviously it takes effort to maintain a property and the owners took the path of least resistance. If one was plowing a lot and moved a curb it would only take a minute to move it back while the plow was still there.

The court might see your point of view and award you your damages. A person should be able to reasonably traverse public access property without the fear of injuries or damages.

On the other hand negligence is so common today that the court might be annoyed at having their time taken up on what they consider a trivial matter. The protruding curb wasn't hidden. You just didn't see it. That is different than an exposed wire that looks the same whether it's live or not.

Wouldn't it be nice if all employees diligently reported hazards to their employers for immediate correction. Just think of all those civil servants reporting potholes so we don't bust our cars.

Just a warning to anyone that posts about legal action:

I Googled "Wasaga Beach car wash curb damage bumper" and this thread came up.

P.S. MLadin, I was going to PM this but your mailbox is full.

Roadghost said:

Famous landmark Canadian case: If the mailman slips and breaks his arm on your property because you didn't shovel the pathway...

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I thought the mailman just refused to deliver your mail if it wasn't safe to do so. Icy walkway, vicious dog etc. WSIB pays if he guesses wrong.

nobbie48 said:

I thought the mailman just refused to deliver your mail if it wasn't safe to do so. Icy walkway, vicious dog etc. WSIB pays if he guesses wrong.

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... and WSIB sues you IF you are liable.
To be liable for damages you had to be negligent. Snow on a walkway in Ontario is not necessarily negligent.

I don't see how a curb stone left in situ for 6 months without a problem is all of a sudden negligent.
I think the negligent party was the one that backed into the curbstone, that the driver was aware off, that hasn't moved in six months.
Other users of this car wash seem to deal with this curb stone efficiently.

bitzz said:

... and WSIB sues you IF you are liable.
To be liable for damages you had to be negligent. Snow on a walkway in Ontario is not necessarily negligent.

I don't see how a curb stone left in situ for 6 months without a problem is all of a sudden negligent.
I think the negligent party was the one that backed into the curbstone, that the driver was aware off, that hasn't moved in six months.
Other users of this car wash seem to deal with this curb stone efficiently.

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Who knows. The owner may have dealt with some by giving coupons. Others aren't up to the challenge as is MLadin. If publicity makes other come forward they may take action as well as well.

In Toronto there are time limits for clearing snow. 8-12 hours IIRC and you can't be sued for slips on city sidewalks.

Also people have to mitigate damage. If you see a hazard you can't ignore it, incur damages and then sue. You can't deliberately run over a misplaced curb or pothole and then sue for the damage.

The court tends to ask what a reasonable person would do under the circumstances. (Find a reasonable person today)

The court will decide what carries more weight. MLadin failing to take appropriate action regarding the hazard or the car wash owner failing to eliminate it in a timely manner.

MLadin quick question in the approx 6 months previous, when admittedly you used the parking lot, AND noted that the curb was out of place and a potential hazard, at ANY point did you take ANY action to advise the property owner and have the situation corrected?

As others have stated you WILL have a VERY steep hill to climb, given that you have admitted that you noted the curb previously, and yet you still managed to back into on this particular day, so in the end who was truly negligent?

Best advice GO get your own vehicle fixed and don't patronize that location EVER again. The potential loss revenues over say the next 5 years will likely exceed the $780.

You can bet the defence attorney will, (IF he is even mildly competent), will have a print out of this thread to present as evidence at a small claims case. Given your previous statements in the thread, I would suggest the court will rule against you AND order costs to the other side, (the lawyer has already indicated they would be seeking them). When I went to discovery for a lawsuit, the opposing counsel had print outs of threads from GTAM, (a friend had posted what they thought was useful info on my behalf)

I think he should see the case through court and fight it with his last dying breath if he needs to. This is the only way some people will ever learn their lesson.