Who's At Fault? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Who's At Fault?

-Maverick-

-Maverick-

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A business (car wash / oil change place) has one of those prefab curbs not pinned down and moved out into his parking lot one foot beyond the yellow line and off center...the result of a snow plow moving it out of place in the winter of 2016.

In June of 2017, the prefab curb has not been moved back into place and pinned (has two holes to be pinned into the asphalt).

The owner never took the initiative to move the curb back into place in the months following winter's end. It is now summer.

A driver hits the curb and damages his vehicle not suspecting something that shouldn't be there to be there.

Who's at fault for the damage to the vehicle? The driver or the owner of the building / business / parking lot?

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Sure hope this is hypothetical

The driver; what if it had been a drunk guy laying on the ground :/ he shouldn't be laying there either but you're not suppose to drive over things just because you don't expect them to be there.
 
Drivers fault. Driver needs to pay attention to where they're driving.
 
private property
property damage
this is civil law territory
court will determine who's at fault for damages
 
Driver, eyes on the road people. Inanimate objects don't jump out at you.
 
There are no parking lot regulations / requirements / standards / bylaw requirements for business owners to make sure there are no obstacles or obstructions in their parking lot that can damage a vehicle or have a motorcycle run into and the rider possibly launched over the bars?

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Thanks. You guys are a tough crowd and in a case like this, I need to hear from a tough crowd to decide whether to hold this owner at least somewhat responsible. I find it very interesting that every female I survey say's its the business owners fault...every male I survey say it's my fault I just need to hear from you guys to see if this is worth moving forward with. The reason I back straight up is that there are exits / entrances on both sides of the business...being a rider I always want a 360 degree view or as much as I can get. That entrance beside the vacuum stall has cars zipping in quickly, so pulling out into a 90 degree could land you in a rear end with someone using that entrance. Backing up straight allows me to view both exits / entrances. It's unfortunate that it happened... I'm not a big deal person, but as I pulled up, and used the wash as I do weekly, the owner and his buddy were sitting on the track smoking a joint in the middle of the day. So instead of walking the perimeter of his business to clear obstacles, he would rather get stoned. Which I can only assume is why his service bays are permanently closed and he's operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

Day of:

https://youtu.be/HGJgoziIxdM

Two days after:

https://youtu.be/03aUyqmQWuc

Business owners defence is there's a small scratch under the bumper:

https://youtu.be/4UyB7lcE0M4
 
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again, this is pure civil law
you have damages
need to prove property owner is culpable
small claims court is the venue
you both present evidence
you have some
if he is served and shows up with nothing
scales could tilt in your favour
no one here can tell you who's fault it is
 
JavaFan said:
again, this is pure civil law
you have damages
need to prove property owner is culpable
small claims court is the venue
you both present evidence
you have some
if he is served and shows up with nothing
scales could tilt in your favour
no one here can tell you who's fault it is
Click to expand...
Thanks. I always find surveying people helps with clarity.

It's bizarre that females that I've shown these videos to are all over the carwash owner. I guess a female judge would be a really good thing!

I did file...he hired a lawyer who called to threaten me that I would be responsible for his legal fees should I lose... pure intimidation. I wasn't phased, as the defence he wrote is literally "there's a small scratch under his bumper."
 
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I think that's because female drivers are always hitting things and looking for scapegoats :)
 
Looks like it's in the middle of nowhere
 
After watching the videos, I would be concerned about the width of the damage on the bumper. To me, it looks like there is damage much wider than the width of the curbing...to the left and also to the right. Also, there is damage much higher than what looks to be the main area scratched up by the curb. A good defence lawyer will argue that the damage doesn’t match up with the object that was hit. If there is any doubt, the possibility of pre-existing damage will take you down a path that ends up costing you more than just paying to get it fixed yourself. Sorry, just playing devil’s advocate.

By any chance did you take pictures or video after hitting the curb...and before moving the vehicle?
That is the best evidence you could take to court.

FWIW, if the business is in Chapter 11, what are the odds of getting paid...even if you win? I honestly don’t know the answer but something to consider.
 
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I don’t understand why your vehicle would be positioned that way so the object couldn’t be seen and backed into?


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Just so I'm clear, you've been aware of this obstacle since the winter of 2016, you hit it (recently presumably) and are wondering who's at fault?
 
Now without context as to how the lawyer "threatened" you, the lawyer is 100% factually correct. If you lose, the defence can ask, and generally are awarded their costs. It depends on how much the lawyer "pads" their bill. Usually the judge will ask what the costs are, you have the right to ask the judge to order them to provide a detailed accounting. But in reality how will you know if the lawyer bills for 30 hours how long they actually spent researching and dealing with their client?

Now even if you win, and provide a estimate of say $3,000 to fix the damage the judge can still determine you were say 90% at fault for not seeing the object, and award you only $300

It isn't uncommon for legal fees to be in the $3 - 5,000 range, so best ensure you have a VERY strong case.

As for their defence, that is the BEST option they have. Had they said you didn't hit it, then they would have to be 100% sure you didn't have any witnesses that could say you did indeed hit it. By stating that all the damage consisted of is a small scratch, they are laying the ground work to minimize the damage claim. Then I suspect they will argue you bear the greater liability, as you should have observed the item.

MLadin said:
Thanks. I always find surveying people helps with clarity.

It's bizarre that females that I've shown these videos to are all over the carwash owner. I guess a female judge would be a really good thing!

I did file...he hired a lawyer who called to threaten me that I would be responsible for his legal fees should I lose... pure intimidation. I wasn't phased, as the defence he wrote is literally "there's a small scratch under his bumper."
Click to expand...
 
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If there is nothing in law or bylaws that state those curbs have to be pinned, I don't see the property owner being liable. Moved a couple days later makes no difference. Could have been moved by another car hitting it. Realistically it's not sticking out that far as to be "in the middle of traffic" as it were. Unfortunately it happend, but from an unbiased viewpoint, doesn't seem like you have a strong case unless I'm missing something.
 
You backed your car into a stationary object. It sucks and crap happens but I don't understand how this could be anyone's fault but your own.

A decent body shop could epoxy that crack and do a quick blow in on the bumper for not a lot of money and you would never notice it.
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