The Wynne bag is at it again



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  1. #1

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    The Wynne bag is at it again

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...plan-1.4433569

    How do we keep tolerating this crap. Get elected and do nothing until an election is on the horizon and your job is at risk and then come up with a plan. If you get elected again the plan becomes dishwater.

    Fraud over a billion $$ a year isn't news.

    Establish a Serious Fraud Office...................you mean a police department????

    Victims are getting screwed, not news.

    Sigh

  2. #2
    TwistedKestrel's Avatar
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    There is almost nothing I like about this article, except that "personal injury" lawyers are vocally unhappy with the plan. They're probably unhappy for the right reasons though, the last insurance "reform" just hosed everybody not by reducing fraud but by reducing what fraud could get out of the system.

    Who has a model vehicle insurance system? Probably not any Canadian province, certainly not the US
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Also these neutral medical assessment centres sound like a huge waste of money and time. Is a medical license not good enough?
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedKestrel View Post
    Also these neutral medical assessment centres sound like a huge waste of money and time. Is a medical license not good enough?
    That's probably on the right path. In the past, many of the claims determined to be fraudulent seem to go through relatively few practitioners. Either pull the medical license of those practitioners or disallow reports from them. The assessment centres will be a disaster (especially if required to be implemented outside of major centres).

  5. #5

    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedKestrel View Post
    Also these neutral medical assessment centres sound like a huge waste of money and time. Is a medical license not good enough?

    Apparently not.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...90/?cmpid=rss1

    This doc is paid off by insurers but there's no reason another couldn't be bought by scam artists. We get screwed both ways.
    The odd times I felt I'd approached the truth, it rested on the premise that people are essentially good and smart.

  6. #6
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Is Ontario the only province dealing with fraud? How do other provinces deliver insurance for less money and deal with fraud at the same time?

  7. #7

    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Let's keep some perspective here. If we're the most expensive province for insurance it's not by much. A month ago an article claimed BC was the worst. http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/27/b...insurance-ctf/ Maybe it depends on how the cost is calculated but either way it's a close fight for the top spot and other provinces could be chomping at our heels too (I'm thinking maybe QC?)

    One thing to remember is the more expensive provinces to live will have higher premiums. That's us and BC. Also, urban areas will probably feature a disproportionate amount of fraud (my guess). Again, that singles out us and BC. So the question is what is BC (and likely QC) doing to combat fraud? And even if any of us are successful, can we expect our rates to come down to the national average? I don't think so.

    But it's definitely worth plugging any scam holes that can be plugged. Problem is it's in the Wynne administration's hands, so they'll screw something up, and the timing seems just right to milk the topic for sympathy from the voters and not much else. In fact we might wish this was all just a hollow vote-buying scheme by the time they get done with any new insurance legislation, if in fact that's their aim. Still, I'd like to see some clamping down on fraud in some way. Even if Wynne and Co. screws it up, then future administrations will have deal with insurance fraud abatement as an issue of law that needs to be fixed rather than merely an issue of public concern that they can keep ignoring.
    Last edited by fastar1; 12-06-2017 at 12:46 PM.
    The odd times I felt I'd approached the truth, it rested on the premise that people are essentially good and smart.

  8. #8

    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Saw the news article on this earlier and thought "oh great insurance is about to get even more expensive"

    Everything they touch seems to be drastically worse off. Half brained ideas implemented all too quickly while patting themselves on the back walking away from the **** storm they just created.



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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedKestrel View Post
    There is almost nothing I like about this article, except that "personal injury" lawyers are vocally unhappy with the plan. They're probably unhappy for the right reasons though, the last insurance "reform" just hosed everybody not by reducing fraud but by reducing what fraud could get out of the system.

    Who has a model vehicle insurance system? Probably not any Canadian province, certainly not the US

    You really think personal injury lawyers are unhappy for the right reasons??? They are also ones who benefit at client expenses and whom are most likely abusing the system as well. With referrals, basically double dipping and clauses with payments based off winnings, which sometimes equal more then the plaintiff will get.

    Fraud within insurance is real in other ways. A buddy of mine is a undercover detective who sole job is to track people to see if the claims are real. I know this may sound like the insurance companies trying to pull one over, but has mentioned plenty of stories going the other way. Unbelievable what **** people are trying to get away with, and we (the average joe) are paying for it.
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by fastar1 View Post
    But it's definitely worth plugging any scam holes that can be plugged. Problem is it's in the Wynne administration's hands, so they'll screw something up, and the timing seems just right to milk the topic for sympathy from the voters and not much else. In fact we might wish this was all just a hollow vote-buying scheme by the time they get done with any new insurance legislation, if in fact that's their aim. Still, I'd like to see some clamping down on fraud in some way. Even if Wynne and Co. screws it up, then future administrations will have deal with insurance fraud abatement as an issue of law that needs to be fixed rather than merely an issue of public concern that they can keep ignoring.
    I think this is very true, most likely some PR stunt to sway public opinion. But they have been dangling this carrot for sometime, I guess this push is just to gain votes on another difficult topic. But I am sure it will all be smoke and mirrors like the electrical rebates.
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  11. #11
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    The rebates are real...I save and my kids and grand kids foot the bill.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by sburns View Post
    You really think personal injury lawyers are unhappy for the right reasons??? They are also ones who benefit at client expenses and whom are most likely abusing the system as well. With referrals, basically double dipping and clauses with payments based off winnings, which sometimes equal more then the plaintiff will get.

    Fraud within insurance is real in other ways. A buddy of mine is a undercover detective who sole job is to track people to see if the claims are real. I know this may sound like the insurance companies trying to pull one over, but has mentioned plenty of stories going the other way. Unbelievable what **** people are trying to get away with, and we (the average joe) are paying for it.
    To put it differently, the things they are quoted as saying in that article seem probably true, though their motivations in saying those things are not likely rooted in a fervent desire to help accident victims. There is a real problem with how large claims currently function (as a drawn out legal battle, which said personal injury lawyers profit from and accident victims suffer by) but I don't have any good suggestions for changing it.

    And absolutely I am not saying there is not true insurance fraud, or that it is not a significant expense for insurance companies. Just that fighting it by having "standard treatment plans for common collision injuries such as sprains and whiplash" sounds stupid and like it will have unfortunate consequences for people that actually have those injuries.
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  13. #13

    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Wouldn't it be easy to stave off scams by implementing a ratings system for insurers?

    People who make claims get to evaluate their insurer's response based on the care they received. Then the insurers who get a higher rating per dollar of care disbursed get permission to charge higher rates. Then we can choose the price and quality of insurer we want, and most scammers get flushed out of the system because they only draw down the insurer's performance.
    The odd times I felt I'd approached the truth, it rested on the premise that people are essentially good and smart.

  14. #14

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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    I think there are significant payoffs and fraud in the system and everyone pays for this.

    When someone on a cellphone came across the center line and totaled my van the tow truck driver wanted to know if we needed a lawyer. Needless to say this guy is not soliciting business for a lawyer for free and there is a referral "fee" paid to him.

    At the hospital the physician attending to my daughter told us that she would need ongoing physiotherapy once her broken hand healed, pulled out a business card for a private clinic and suggested we contact them to set up an appointment. I looked at the card and declined saying that we had a PT we usually went to close to home. Next morning, this private clinic called my home to inquire about by daughter and to offer services. This means that the hospital emergency doctor must have passed on my daughter's private medical and contact info on to them and he obviously gets a referral fee or has some financial interest in the clinic.

    So there is plenty of fraud in the system, but Wynne's recent interest is just an election ploy. The Liberals have has 10+ years to address the same issue and they've done little to date.
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Yes I talk to my treatment providers, (Physio, Chiropractor, and massage/laser treatment provider). All have told me it is NOT uncommon for clinics to "pay" referral fees, (sometimes up to $1000), to doctors, tow truck drivers, lawyers etc etc for EACH referral

    The physio was telling me yesterday, according to the physio association under this "new" system that will determine what treatment you require they are going to try to model it on WSIB as opposed to the current MIG, (Minor Injury Guidelines), of the insurer system. This would see MOST treatment plans go from the current $3500 for MIG to $600 as WSIB currently caps at. Plus the new "evaluation centers" will be staffed by people paid BY the insurers, as opposed to unbiased health care providers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReSTored View Post
    I think there are significant payoffs and fraud in the system and everyone pays for this.

    When someone on a cellphone came across the center line and totaled my van the tow truck driver wanted to know if we needed a lawyer. Needless to say this guy is not soliciting business for a lawyer for free and there is a referral "fee" paid to him.

    At the hospital the physician attending to my daughter told us that she would need ongoing physiotherapy once her broken hand healed, pulled out a business card for a private clinic and suggested we contact them to set up an appointment. I looked at the card and declined saying that we had a PT we usually went to close to home. Next morning, this private clinic called my home to inquire about by daughter and to offer services. This means that the hospital emergency doctor must have passed on my daughter's private medical and contact info on to them and he obviously gets a referral fee or has some financial interest in the clinic.

    So there is plenty of fraud in the system, but Wynne's recent interest is just an election ploy. The Liberals have has 10+ years to address the same issue and they've done little to date.
    Last edited by hedo2002; 12-11-2017 at 04:04 PM.

  16. #16
    TwistedKestrel's Avatar
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    That would be pretty stupid. People would have to buy back the coverage since obviously $600 ain't gonna cover ****, and then it ends up costing more instead of less
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedKestrel View Post
    That would be pretty stupid. People would have to buy back the coverage since obviously $600 ain't gonna cover ****, and then it ends up costing more instead of less
    I don't think the government plans to permit you to "buy" additional coverage, just like today you can not buy additional coverage to get you more than the MIG, ($3,500), you have to have injuries which "justify" your being moved from the MIG to the next "level" of $50,000. That is where all the "experts and consultants" make their money. Plus many times you end up going to a mediator, who rules if you require extra treatment.

    It is nothing more than a shell game

  18. #18
    TwistedKestrel's Avatar
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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Oh. That's worse
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  19. #19

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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by ReSTored View Post
    I think there are significant payoffs and fraud in the system and everyone pays for this.

    When someone on a cellphone came across the center line and totaled my van the tow truck driver wanted to know if we needed a lawyer. Needless to say this guy is not soliciting business for a lawyer for free and there is a referral "fee" paid to him.

    At the hospital the physician attending to my daughter told us that she would need ongoing physiotherapy once her broken hand healed, pulled out a business card for a private clinic and suggested we contact them to set up an appointment. I looked at the card and declined saying that we had a PT we usually went to close to home. Next morning, this private clinic called my home to inquire about by daughter and to offer services. This means that the hospital emergency doctor must have passed on my daughter's private medical and contact info on to them and he obviously gets a referral fee or has some financial interest in the clinic.

    So there is plenty of fraud in the system, but Wynne's recent interest is just an election ploy. The Liberals have has 10+ years to address the same issue and they've done little to date.
    I do repairs to specialty items and one is typically used in a cottage. The owner of a clinic needed my services and asked if I had any medical benefits. I get them through my wife and told him so.

    He suggested he pay me in receipts from his clinic. I wouldn't get the treatments just the receipts.

    No thanks.

  20. #20

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    Re: The Wynne bag is at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by nobbie48 View Post
    I do repairs to specialty items and one is typically used in a cottage. The owner of a clinic needed my services and asked if I had any medical benefits. I get them through my wife and told him so.

    He suggested he pay me in receipts from his clinic. I wouldn't get the treatments just the receipts.

    No thanks.
    wtf? What's the upside to you for that one? If you want to run a cash scam to avoid income tax, it's much safer for all involved to "sell" him a piece of equipment that the business could use. If there is ever an audit, that equipment broke or was stolen.

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