Motorcycles cause 10% of traffic deaths in Ontario - Sunnybrook study | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Motorcycles cause 10% of traffic deaths in Ontario - Sunnybrook study

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Can someone please define "cause" as in the headline for me?

This comment was interesting: "This study provides an estimate of costs that may be recovered from motorcycle insurers under this legislation. The higher costs and greater incidence of severe injury and death we observed may also warrant other improvements to health prevention measures. For example, supplementary private health care insurance, an excise tax or another novel method of health coverage for motorcyclists may be justified with the goal of improving motorcycle safety."
 
Cause they got hit by a car ?
 
Baggsy said:
Can someone please define "cause" as in the headline for me?

This comment was interesting: "This study provides an estimate of costs that may be recovered from motorcycle insurers under this legislation. The higher costs and greater incidence of severe injury and death we observed may also warrant other improvements to health prevention measures. For example, supplementary private health care insurance, an excise tax or another novel method of health coverage for motorcyclists may be justified with the goal of improving motorcycle safety."
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If it's about higher costs and behaviors and choices that lead to increased risks of healthcare system burdens, then I eagerly await the studies on:

- people who play sports
- people who eat fast foods and/or who are overweight
- people who walk or drive distracted
- people who frequent late-night bars and clubs
- people who fly helicopters
- people who use crosswalks or pedestrian crossovers
- people who consume alcohol
- people with mental issues/depression etc
- people who drive the 401 every day
- people who work in construction, esp high-rise construction
- people who work in security or as "bouncers"
- people who work in other dangerous jobs like police, firefighters
- people who drive buses and taxis, esp overnight shifts
- people who work in variety stores and gas stations
- people who live in marginalized communities with high rates of crime, gang activity and the like
- do we want to go the route of race, religions etc? Insurance co's seem to be able to discriminate based on age and sex already, so why not more?

There are lots of choices people make everyday, states of mind or belief that can result in added cost to the healthcare system. Why are these insurance co shills focused solely on motorcycles?
 
Doctor T said:
... or returning riders who got their licenses 20 or so years ago and thought to pick riding again once the kids get older.
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A previously experienced rider returning to riding is going to be statistically far safer than a brand new rider of the same age just starting out. Arguably, they're probably a *lot* safer as there's a good chance they may have had some close calls in their younger past, and now in their older and more risk-adverse years they are not interested in repeating them.

Blackfin said:
Either it's an insurance-industry funded study that will precede an increase in rates or it will be leveraged by the insurance industry to justify hefty rate increases.

Wait for it...
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There's so little healthcare/recovery related money left in standard policies in Ontario anymore that it's almost laughable how easy the insurance companies have it - face it, our healthcare system pays for a huge majority of the initial accident recovery expenses - it's only for the people who need extensive post-accident care who actually cost them anything, and even then you're required to exhaust all other options for the costs of such (workplace benefits, etc) before they pay, and the last insult is that they seem to successfully be able to group almost any accident victim in the "minor" category which tops your benefits at something like $50,000.

Would they try to fleece us for even more given these facts? Yeah, still wouldn't surprise me.
 
Actually, it's possible that this group isn't shilling for the ins co's (though you know they'll be all over this looking for a b*** job while the government screws us) but rather for the Liberal government. After re-reading Baggy's quoted post above it reads like it's the government is the one looking for additional revenue tools here: Maybe it will come in the form of additional fees when it comes to registering a new bike, or renewing your plates, or a new tax on motorcycle insurance policies. Anything to generate a boatload of new revenue.

You forgot the big one: Smoking.
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Indeed. Look the hosing that group has suffered at the hands of a succession of revenue-hungry governments. Surely they're worthy of more studies that can put them in a worse light.
 
Maybe they will give us our own roads, motorcycle only roads with guard rails that don't resemble cheese graters
:lmao: like that would ever happen.

Guardrail.jpg
 
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I disagree. The 40-50 yr old coming back to riding starts out far over confident. In their minds they are still 20 with the reflexes and skills they used to have. Then reality hits and they go bouncing down the road. This is what I've seen over the years. A very consistent pattern.

PrivatePilot said:
A previously experienced rider returning to riding is going to be statistically far safer than a brand new rider of the same age just starting out. Arguably, they're probably a *lot* safer as there's a good chance they may have had some close calls in their younger past, and now in their older and more risk-adverse years they are not interested in repeating them.
.
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ddusseld said:
I disagree. The 40-50 yr old coming back to riding starts out far over confident. In their minds they are still 20 with the reflexes and skills they used to have. Then reality hits and they go bouncing down the road. This is what I've seen over the years. A very consistent pattern.
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... holy, you must be old!
 
ddusseld said:
I disagree. The 40-50 yr old coming back to riding starts out far over confident
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Just so I know from what perspective you’re looking at this from, what age group are you in?
 
To me it seems like the study is by trauma doctors trying to wangle the same pay for less work.

I also believe that old timers coming back thinking they know it already, are more dangerous than youngsters who admit that they don't.
 
I say time to ban motorcycles. We don't need these deathtraps on the road!
 
RockerGuy said:
I say time to ban motorcycles. We don't need these deathtraps on the road!
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As long as we can ride the ditches, green belts, hydro cuts, railway land and the medium between the divided highways, I'd be good with that.
 
Complete bull. Wonder why none of these scholars in the acedemic peer reviewers recognized the gross error on the input data? MTO stats for 2016 show 1631 injuries for 220,000 registered motorcycles, or 727/100,0000 registered motorcycles. That's about 3 times less than the noted study which lists the number at 2194/100K registrations - a discrepency worth investigating I would think.

Do these people get paid to do this?

see MTO results at : http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/publications/pdfs/preliminary-2016-orsar-selected-statistics.pdf.
 
Mad Mike said:
Complete bull. Wonder why none of these scholars in the acedemic peer reviewers recognized the gross error on the input data? MTO stats for 2016 show 1631 injuries for 220,000 registered motorcycles, or 727/100,0000 registered motorcycles. That's about 3 times less than the noted study which lists the number at 2194/100K registrations - a discrepency worth investigating I would think.

Do these people get paid to do this?

see MTO results at : http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/publications/pdfs/preliminary-2016-orsar-selected-statistics.pdf.
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Yeah, it sounds like another agenda-based study. Wonder who financed it? Insurance companies? Medical groups?

There's nothing there we didn't really know. I think the recent rise in fatalities is due to distracted (read: cell phone) driving. Looking for better laws on that.
 
Roadghost said:
Yeah, it sounds like another agenda-based study. Wonder who financed it? Insurance companies? Medical groups?
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The list of authors includes references to individuals from the "Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences", an outfit that "receives core funding from the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care." (link)

So, yeah, it the government Jonesing for ways to generate more revenue from another identifiable, politically-weak group.


Complete bull. Wonder why none of these scholars in the acedemic peer reviewers recognized the gross error on the input data? MTO stats for 2016 show 1631 injuries for 220,000 registered motorcycles, or 727/100,0000 registered motorcycles. That's about 3 times less than the noted study which lists the number at 2194/100K registrations - a discrepency worth investigating I would think.
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I wonder if this explains some of that. I copied a screen shot of the study since copying text seems, er, tricky:

study.jpg

The forum's got a ludicrously low limit on file size. If you can't read it coz it's too small, go to page 7 of the study, line 20.
 
ddusseld said:
I disagree. The 40-50 yr old coming back to riding starts out far over confident. In their minds they are still 20 with the reflexes and skills they used to have. Then reality hits and they go bouncing down the road. This is what I've seen over the years. A very consistent pattern.
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My thoughts as well. I would also say there's a lot more traffic and distracted drivers out there than say 20 years ago. ATGATT would be natural for newer riders. Finally, I would think courses like the m1 exit are better now then what was available then.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
Doctor T said:
My thoughts as well. I would also say there's a lot more traffic and distracted drivers out there than say 20 years ago. ATGATT would be natural for newer riders. Finally, I would think courses like the m1 exit are better now then what was available then.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
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Some people might feel that the curriculum has been "dumbed down", so it's not conclusive that newer is better.
People have told me that the old curriculum was a lot tougher. Bikes are definitely better now though.

As far as who is behind the study, there's a paragraph in there disavowing anyone but the authors, having input into the topic.

"The funders had no role in study design, data collection and analysis, decision to publish or preparation of the manuscript. Parts of the material are based on data and information compiled and provided by the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). No endorsement by ICES, the MOHLTC or CIHI is intended or should be inferred. No benefits have been received or will be received from a commercial party related directly or indirectly to the subject of this article."
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