Harley upgrades (can you skip kits?) | GTAMotorcycle.com

Harley upgrades (can you skip kits?)

bigpoppa

Well-known member
They have 'kits' to upgrade bikes, heck even the engines go from 107 to 114...question is can you skip stage 1-3 and go straight to stage 4? or nah?

Breaking it down in stages makes it seem like its a progression you HAVE to follow...
 
Was going to read up on it, found this
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softail-models/653274-can-you-guys-explain-stage-2-3-and-4-a.html
read a couple paragraphs and lost interest.

That guide roughly agreed with stages in my head.

Stage 1 - Air filter and Slip On. Mainly done to say you did it/make your bike louder. May have minimal hp gains.
Stage 2 - Cam. I would normally stop here (with a good exhaust), you have unlocked all of the cheap and easy potential in this bike.
Stage 3 - Heads. Getting damned expensive, probably well past the point of diminishing returns.
Stage 4 - Not normally done, increased cc's, turbo, nitrous, etc. Normally reliability starts to take a beating here.

At somewhere around Stage 2 or 3, a full exhaust system comes into play. Obviously, for every stage above 1 (and sometimes for 1), fueling/carb may need to be adjusted.

Based on the above, for the most part, each stage is working on a separate part of the engine but if you are planning to push further in the future you need to plan so you don't end up with orphaned parts (eg slipons or a mild cam if you plan on building a fire breather in the near future).

I've had a few stage 3ish mini motors. They sound good and they are lots of fun, but the first grenaded the bottom end. The second is probably down 20+ hp on the first (~100hp 1.3L for the new one), but it is rock solid reliable. I am struggling whether to put the fancy head from the first one on the second to get back most of the lost power (probably).
 
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My aquainatance is a HD nut, he has just purchased a new CVO with the complete 114 kit. It adds about 12k to the price of the new bike but you get a 'warranty' . To get the benefit of 4, you need 1/2/3 since they all work together. That's why they are called stages.

I'm not sure I'd ever take a brand new bike and have the dealer rip the engine down, and end up with a 54K bike through HD finance. But the CVO paint job does have invisible micro flames so......
 
The value of after market add ons is a lot like beauty. It's value is very much in the eye of the beholder.
I hear about all of these things increasing the resale value of a motorcycle but they don't really.
Unless you can find a buyer who has the exact same taste as you.
 
My aquainatance is a HD nut, he has just purchased a new CVO with the complete 114 kit. It adds about 12k to the price of the new bike but you get a 'warranty' . To get the benefit of 4, you need 1/2/3 since they all work together. That's why they are called stages.

I'm not sure I'd ever take a brand new bike and have the dealer rip the engine down, and end up with a 54K bike through HD finance. But the CVO paint job does have invisible micro flames so......


Just what i was looking for, thanks!
 
I must admit I’ve never totally understood the thought process behind buying a motorcycle and then going through all kinds of time, expense, and very real risk (in the sense of reliability) to “hop up” the engine. Why not just buy a different bike with the power you want to begin with vs trying to mold a lesser one to fit your desires?

As soon as I see any power or performance upgrades on a vehicle of any sort I walk away – to me it means that somebody wasn’t happy with the performance they bought and compromised the long term reliability to exceed it vs just to squeeze out a few more HP. I don’t want somebody else’s thrashed engine.
 
I must admit I’ve never totally understood the thought process behind buying a motorcycle and then going through all kinds of time, expense, and very real risk (in the sense of reliability) to “hop up” the engine. Why not just buy a different bike with the power you want to begin with vs trying to mold a lesser one to fit your desires?

As soon as I see any power or performance upgrades on a vehicle of any sort I walk away – to me it means that somebody wasn’t happy with the performance they bought and compromised the long term reliability to exceed it vs just to squeeze out a few more HP. I don’t want somebody else’s thrashed engine.

For a daily driver, adding tons of power at the expense of reliability doesn't make sense to me either.

For a toy, there are many situations where it does make sense. In the context of this discussion, many people want a Harley and no other brand is acceptable, therefore the only way to get the power you want in the bike you want is dumping tons of money into upgrading that motor.

Although stage 1 is only a few hp most people do it for the noise (and to say that their bike is customised even though probably 80% of the bikes leaving the dealer have the same package). As you climb in stages, you aren't talking a few more hp, you are often talking 50%+ more hp by Stage 3. Stage 4 (in normal vehicles, not sure about HD marketing speak) should be up at least 100%. Basically you end up with the look and sound of a harley and straight line performance approaching a Vmax for more than double the money.
 
I must admit I’ve never totally understood the thought process behind buying a motorcycle and then going through all kinds of time, expense, and very real risk (in the sense of reliability) to “hop up” the engine. Why not just buy a different bike with the power you want to begin with vs trying to mold a lesser one to fit your desires?

As soon as I see any power or performance upgrades on a vehicle of any sort I walk away – to me it means that somebody wasn’t happy with the performance they bought and compromised the long term reliability to exceed it vs just to squeeze out a few more HP. I don’t want somebody else’s thrashed engine.

some don't understand why you would buy a bike and just keep it stock
 
For a daily driver, adding tons of power at the expense of reliability doesn't make sense to me either.

For a toy, there are many situations where it does make sense. In the context of this discussion, many people want a Harley and no other brand is acceptable, therefore the only way to get the power you want in the bike you want is dumping tons of money into upgrading that motor.

Although stage 1 is only a few hp most people do it for the noise (and to say that their bike is customised even though probably 80% of the bikes leaving the dealer have the same package). As you climb in stages, you aren't talking a few more hp, you are often talking 50%+ more hp by Stage 3. Stage 4 (in normal vehicles, not sure about HD marketing speak) should be up at least 100%. Basically you end up with the look and sound of a harley and straight line performance approaching a Vmax for more than double the money.

Bang on
 
That guide roughly agreed with stages in my head.

Stage 1 - Air filter and Slip On. Mainly done to say you did it/make your bike louder. May have minimal hp gains.
Stage 2 - Cam. I would normally stop here (with a good exhaust), you have unlocked all of the cheap and easy potential in this bike.
Stage 3 - Heads. Getting damned expensive, probably well past the point of diminishing returns.
Stage 4 - Not normally done, increased cc's, turbo, nitrous, etc. Normally reliability starts to take a beating here.

At somewhere around Stage 2 or 3, a full exhaust system comes into play. Obviously, for every stage above 1 (and sometimes for 1), fueling/carb may need to be adjusted.

Based on the above, for the most part, each stage is working on a separate part of the engine but if you are planning to push further in the future you need to plan so you don't end up with orphaned parts (eg slipons or a mild cam if you plan on building a fire breather in the near future).

I've had a few stage 3ish mini motors. They sound good and they are lots of fun, but the first grenaded the bottom end. The second is probably down 20+ hp on the first (~100hp 1.3L for the new one), but it is rock solid reliable. I am struggling whether to put the fancy head from the first one on the second to get back most of the lost power (probably).
Great write up . Once your into stage 3 your into huge cash . A few guys figured this out and just bought a s&s motors . Cost a few bucks . But reliable way to increase hp.

After reading many posts on my vrod . Its wasn't worth the money to go past stage 1 with tuner .
 
Great write up . Once your into stage 3 your into huge cash . A few guys figured this out and just bought a s&s motors . Cost a few bucks . But reliable way to increase hp.

After reading many posts on my vrod . Its wasn't worth the money to go past stage 1 with tuner .


I'v gone that route when I had a Harley, and after spending about $4-$5k I ended up with a faster Harley that still couldn't turn or stop very well, sure was fun tho

V-rod are probably the best platform to start off with tho if you want to stick to Harley because you are so much further ahead of the rest with just the stock version, If you are into the looks of it
 
My aquainatance is a HD nut, he has just purchased a new CVO with the complete 114 kit. It adds about 12k to the price of the new bike but you get a 'warranty' . To get the benefit of 4, you need 1/2/3 since they all work together. That's why they are called stages.

I'm not sure I'd ever take a brand new bike and have the dealer rip the engine down, and end up with a 54K bike through HD finance. But the CVO paint job does have invisible micro flames so......

CVO already comes with a 114.

My buddy wanted a '15 CVO SG but there were none left available in Canada so he bought a SG Special and built a CVO including the Stage 4 kit. He said he spent more money in that second customizing room than he did for just the bike.
 
some don't understand why you would buy a bike and just keep it stock

There's a difference between tasteful modifications, and buying a Chevy Malibu and trying to make it a Corvette.
 
Considering how lean stock HDs come from the factory, a stage 1 is pretty much mandatory.

Then you get into motor upgrades and depending on budget, a set of cams is pretty reasonable.

Stage 3&4 is getting to point some have more money than brains and typically the mind that bash non HD makes and riders. You know the folks that ride machines that already perform very well out of the crate.




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I have Stage 1 on my bike. It's necessary if you change pipes and intake. Makes a big difference and it's inexpensive.
 

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