JTR
Well-known member
Sorry if I misread you, took what you posted, to be your opinion. Which seemed echo the BS stereotype I've seen here a quite a few times.
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Harley-Davidson Profit Falls As Slide in Motorcycle Sales Continues
- Thread starter Blackfin
- Start date
Sorry if I misread you, took what you posted, to be your opinion. Which seemed echo the BS stereotype I've seen here a quite a few times.
Roadghost
Well-known member
Based on IHS Markit New Registrations for Motorcycles with 601 and greater cc engines from 2008-2016:
Their data says HD has 42% of the youth market above 601cc.
Nearest competitor has 13.5%
http://investor.harley-davidson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=87981&p=irol-demographics
Based on this information HD is actually selling well to the youth market. It's their sales to the older demographic that is suffering, AKA the boomers and Gen-X. There aren't enough Millennials to replace them.
Their data says HD has 42% of the youth market above 601cc.
Nearest competitor has 13.5%
http://investor.harley-davidson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=87981&p=irol-demographics
Based on this information HD is actually selling well to the youth market. It's their sales to the older demographic that is suffering, AKA the boomers and Gen-X. There aren't enough Millennials to replace them.
JTR
Well-known member
Very simple, light weight, should be cheap because there's nothing to it. Might even have appeal to the millenial hipster crowd, but I'd need to see somebody with a well groomed beard, flannel shirt and sparkly 3/4 helmet sitting on it in front of a trendy coffee shop first before ruling on that. Kidding aside though, something like that could actually move out the door.Time for a Sportster Scrambler -
Step one though, is to clean house at the retail level. Drop Clare's, they're a complete waste of 2 franchise territories, and good territories to be honest, Dover and the Falls? And all they'e selling is apparel? Reprimand the stores that have a history of complaints(I can attest to the arrogance and pomp of some store's employees) and threaten with pulling the badge if they continue chasing away potential customers. And finally, return the badge to some of the nicer stores that actually moved real metal, for example Poole's in Hamilton. Poole's was the biggest motorcycle store in the Hamilton area, and even though they lost their badge and only sell used bikes now, they still are the biggest and best looking around. I was just a kid in my late teens when I used to go in there all the time, and did they tell m to take a hike? No way, they let me hang around and stare a the bikes, encouraged me to get a license etc. That is how you bring new riders into the flock. Wish more stores understood that.
HDs demographic is old, overweight, white men. Just because you're (maybe) not old doesn't exactly make you a whole new demographic that they can thrive off of!
As many manufacturers and buyers keep striving for the impossible 'perfect bike' that does it all, HD is content to keep churning out bikes that do it none. Yes, I hate HD, it represents everything wrong with America.
BMW and Polaris sell more bikes in the US than Suzuki? Dunno about that.Honda sold around 17 million motorcycles worldwide in the 2016 fiscal year.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/267277/worldwide-motorcycle-sales-of-honda/
didn't find much for worldwide motorcycle market share 2016 on a quick search. But the Indian and Asian markets are huge....big cruisers don't fit there that well.
Yeah, the HD brand is too powerful and valuable to go through a rethink. They'll need another brand they can use to flog bikes that appeal to the other half of the motorcycle world's split identity between cruisers, and bikes that actuall turn and go.
Buell should've been that brand but instead of investing in it they divested from it. They clearly don't get it. Instead they're watering down HDs heritage trying to make it appeal to people it has no business appealing to, as the HD fans are describing here. I always thought Buells were cool, even when HD owned them.
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wonderings
Well-known member
I just came back from Germany visiting family and was surprised at how many Harley's I saw on the road. I have been there many many times and cannot remember a time seeing a single Harley. The beautiful weather we had there brought all the bikers out and there was a high percentage of HD's I would say. Now this is pure anecdotal, but it did not appear they were suffering and it certainly did not look like an old fat man riding the bike, all the riders I saw seemed to have a pretty hipster look going for them.
Harley-Davidson will do just fine and may not last forever. It's the hand-wringers I'm worried about, not a 114 year-old business. OHIP isn't magic, you know. For me, motorcycles, scooters, mopeds, trikes and bicycles all rock. Choice is good. Unicycles are weird though.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
Dont know how long harleys been around in Deutschland, but it may just be a relatively new phenomenon, we here in north america have been saturated with essentially the same product for 50 years or so
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Face
Well-known member
We were touring in Slovenia, Northern Croatia and the Dolomites 3 years ago and came across the biggest HD convention in Europe. It was in southern Austria, but spilled across the border into northern Italy and Slovenia. Lots of Harley trains and towns with banners welcoming Harley riders. Since their demographic is aging in the US, they have focused on expanding their market to a similar demographic in Europe and elsewhere. In those places, for certain people there is a Harley mystique, something foreign and different. Also promoting events like the one I saw helps build that mystique and brand interest.
But one wonders how long this approach can be sustained since it is still focused on aging riders. Also for Euro riders, how many times do they need to get passed by us old folks 2-up on adventure tourers before they realize that after the mystique fades, they're riding heavy bikes designed to go straight on roads with lots of curves. Still pretty entertaining to watch tho.
Can someone point me to the actual marketing strategy documents that indicate this? It would be a curious read. I was under the impression that they intended to make *desireable* bikes and profit by doing so, like any manufacturer. As for what cruisers riders think (Euro or otherwise), I'd guess many are enjoying the ride on a bike they think is cool. That's what I do. Not sure I've ever paid much attention to anyone passing me, other than for safety reasons. Beyond doing a bit of scraping in turns at legal speeds, cruisers seem to get along fine. Especially in the spring and fall. Too cold to ride fast then, some people tell me.
Face
Well-known member
From my experience, speed limits in Europe tend to be much closer to the 85th percentile (a transportation planning standard, the speed at which up to 85% of traffic is comfortable traveling on that particular road - only 15% would want to travel faster), than here, so the question of legal speeds is less of an issue. Travel below legal speeds and you become the hazard. And the curves we ride anywhere in North America can't compare to the great European mountain roads. Its like saying you can ride a cruiser on a track, but why would you want to. Right tool for the job. Its like pounding a nail in with the butt end of a screwdriver.
J_F
Guest
no worries bro
was just responding to the original post about HD's declining sales
and what I think they should do to bring them up
as a guy straddling 2 co-horts, end of the Boomers, beginning of the X'ers
HD has a few bikes that appeal to me
and I think they make a very durable motorcycle
wonderings
Well-known member
Harleys can handle a winding road no problem, they are great cruisers and touring machines. My preference is for the ADV bike, they just seem way more functional for everything I want to do with my bike but I have no issues taking out my dads large heavy Ultra Classic for a rip. I do not notice the weight when moving, is comfy at highway speeds and no issues for me at low speeds, though it does get a bit hot. Sure they are not sport bikes, but no cruiser is going to keep up with an experienced sport bike rider in the curves, but that is not to say they will not have fun and enjoy some twisty roads.
My GSA is the odd bike out amongst my friends and family who all ride Harleys and really in SW Ontario where are you finding heaps of curves and twists that warrant the need for a sport bike? Seems like HD was made for our long straight country roads. Talking with older Harley riders and why they chose the bike, well much of it has to do with their childhood seeing these bikes rip around and dreaming about them. They are at an age where they can afford and enjoy them, be it only on weekends or when the sun is shining. More power to them, do what you like, ride when you like and enjoy.
JTR
Well-known member
Yeah man that's it right there, I grew up drooling over Harleys. Having a cruiser and getting used to how it rides, I love winding roads as much as the next guy. I might not be breaking land speed records, but my chicken strips are as small as my pegs will allow them to get. Yeah I might want a sport bike to **** around on, but I have no interest in daily driving one, and no 200+mph SS will ever be as cool as a long low and loud cruiser. I don't live or work at a race track, will rarely ever get to use the potential of any sport bike and it's been proven many times, it's way more fun to drive a slow vehicle fast, than to drive a fast vehicle slow. I love my honda, and when I go for a side bike it will likely be a CBR because they won me over as a brand, but my next cruiser will definitely be HD.
It's getting to be a few years ago, but my observations of bikes actually on the road in Europe suggest that the order is something like:
Scooters (Huge numbers)
Naked (Kawasaki Z750, Ducati Monster, etc)
ADV
Smaller quasi-touring bikes (like the BMW F800ST that I had as a rental, Honda VFR, etc)
Sport
Big touring bikes
Cruisers of all types, H-D or otherwise (Very few of them)
Hairpins on the alpine pass roads can't be much fun on a heavy bike, and if you go on the motorway you had better be comfortable doing 130 - 150 km/h except in speed-camera-addled Switzerland, which hasn't got many motorways. Lane splitting in city traffic (legal and common) can't be much fun on something big and heavy, either.
The F800 was great in all those situations.
Scooters (Huge numbers)
Naked (Kawasaki Z750, Ducati Monster, etc)
ADV
Smaller quasi-touring bikes (like the BMW F800ST that I had as a rental, Honda VFR, etc)
Sport
Big touring bikes
Cruisers of all types, H-D or otherwise (Very few of them)
Hairpins on the alpine pass roads can't be much fun on a heavy bike, and if you go on the motorway you had better be comfortable doing 130 - 150 km/h except in speed-camera-addled Switzerland, which hasn't got many motorways. Lane splitting in city traffic (legal and common) can't be much fun on something big and heavy, either.
The F800 was great in all those situations.
pfbmgd
Well-known member
HD turns out bikes for their demographic . They sell all they make . The new softtail line up is a winner .
I can see how they represent whats wrong with America . NOT ! :roll:
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