bigpoppa
Well-known member
For those looking for places i found many, just have to leave the GTA...i was near shelburne this particular time
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Riding offroad should be mandatory
- Thread starter bigpoppa
- Start date
Ok, do that in mud or hardpack without a berm and let me know how it works out for you
I think the take away is, dirt is fun. Dirt can be forgiving. Builds confidences and makes for a better rider in the streets.
Technique varies for surface and motorcycle type.
I find riders that have not ridden dirt, can get a little freaked out when the bike gets loose on the street. They either freeze up or over compensate.
Not saying dirt experience will prevent street accidents.
But it can help avoid some. Especially during unfavourable conditions such as rain fall. Make the asphalt slick and a lot of bikes can lose traction.
No matter what, seat time gains experience and anytime you can ride is good.
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Technique varies for surface and motorcycle type.
I find riders that have not ridden dirt, can get a little freaked out when the bike gets loose on the street. They either freeze up or over compensate.
Not saying dirt experience will prevent street accidents.
But it can help avoid some. Especially during unfavourable conditions such as rain fall. Make the asphalt slick and a lot of bikes can lose traction.
No matter what, seat time gains experience and anytime you can ride is good.
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It's no coincidence that the top riders in the world (motoGP) all train with multiple disciplines, such as flat track, enduro, supermoto, motocross, etc. It all helps with improving bike feel and control.
Any bike taken off-tarmac (better description, at least in my case) is fun. Partly because Ontario's highways are a recycled sermon given by a preacher at the end of his career. Also, because floating along a gravel road and throwing up a cloud of dust is awesome. I'm no expert either, but if my modest skills can take a maxi scooter down wet grass hills and along muddy farm trails strewn with "gravel" (fist-sized chunks) then everyone can enjoy their bike on excursions. Watch for the mud/poop holes though. Nasty, nasty stuff and zero traction.
cheekeebandito
Well-known member
TRUTH !! I rode off road for years , before going street .... rode street for over 35 years, but due to the huge number of distracted morons on the road these days, I'm back to dirt only (and LOVING IT ) .... biggest issue I've had though , is grabbing too much front brake in the dirt (not a great idea) .... but off road is awesome for getting comfortable on two wheels .... Cheers, Les
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I ride both, other than seat time I can't think of much that street riding has contributed to dirt riding and vice versa. Spending a few hours on the road will yeild more valuable experience for street riding than will a few hours on the dirt - and vice versa. When my 250 dirt bike unleashes it's peak WOT 30HP and 20lbs of torque around a loose corner I giggle and drift through, it's hardly scary. That experience isn't worth a bag of hammers when the back tire breaks loose on my SS when it's kicking out 180hp/125lbs of torque. Trust ne, there are no giggles when this happens.
It's true that pro riders often ride across diffferent disciplines. They do this mostly because they are racers and will mount anuthing that races any time -- more for the sport and thrill than for the cross discipline experience.
If you like to ride the roads, you'll get better by focussing on your road skills. If you like the dirt, spend time getting dirty. Don't expect much to be gained by the crossover.
It's true that pro riders often ride across diffferent disciplines. They do this mostly because they are racers and will mount anuthing that races any time -- more for the sport and thrill than for the cross discipline experience.
If you like to ride the roads, you'll get better by focussing on your road skills. If you like the dirt, spend time getting dirty. Don't expect much to be gained by the crossover.
HarleyHare
Well-known member
Disagree - two completely different riding skills required, eg. more front brake required on road, more back brake required on dirt, ABS excluded. Also dirt or dual sport bikes are generally smaller, lighter and much more nimble. Riding an XT350 in the dirt for over 10 years, then riding a "supposedly adventure-bike" heavier street bike in the dirt was a wake up.
New, right from the dealer, I saw a forest tract, couldn't resist and took it off-road (with stock street tires, not knobbies like the XT) was a huge mistake. The road bike was heavy and handled like a hippopotamus in comparison. So almost dropped this brand new bike a couple of times. But I escaped fortunately with minimal trauma, with only my license plate dangling from one bolt.
Lesson learned? - use and equip the bike that is meant for the specific purpose.
New, right from the dealer, I saw a forest tract, couldn't resist and took it off-road (with stock street tires, not knobbies like the XT) was a huge mistake. The road bike was heavy and handled like a hippopotamus in comparison. So almost dropped this brand new bike a couple of times. But I escaped fortunately with minimal trauma, with only my license plate dangling from one bolt.
Lesson learned? - use and equip the bike that is meant for the specific purpose.
Sliding your dirt bike through a corner is much the same as sliding your SS through a corner, other than the speed. The speed makes it scary, but once it breaks loose it's all about throttle control. Too much you go down, too little you go over the top, same as on your dirt bike, same skill set.
When you get it wrong there is usually a better outcome on a dirt bike.
When you get it right it's fun til you have to buy tires. Watch YouTube videos of Gary McCoy. He was the king of crossed up sliding, with the front wheel in the air, the back tire spinning, just like on a dirt bike, but he was doing on a GP bike, at 200mph.
Try riding a real dirtbike and see what happens when 55hp/210lbs with traction gets away from you. That bike will yank your arms off just as hard as your SS, trust me.
When a dirtbike starts to tuck the front, you stand the bike up. When a street bike starts to tuck the front, you stand the bike up. Rear end control was already covered. On a real dirtbike you NEED front brakes, a lot. They’re fast and you need to slow down. You use more rear brake in the dirt but lots of road rides should learn how to use theirs.
It’s still a bike and reacts the same way no matter what surface it’s on, that’s why the top guys in the world train on them.
I read 30 hp is fun, 180 hp scares me. Power sliding a street bike into a power wheelie is a lot of fun. Puts a smile on my face every time. How did I learn to do it? In the dirt.
I'd rather do stupid things in the dirt and fall and get back up and ride.
Street? Not as much. The dirt helped me recognize the things I need to avoid in the street.
Also, those that have ridden street exclusively tend to get panicked when the bike gets loose. Chop the throttle etc.
The dirt helps learn what the machine will do and what needs to be done to ride it out etc.
And the principles carry over to the street.
Especially when traction is limited.
There are differences of course. But there is a lot that crosses over.
Even having a two stroke with abrupt power band helps with transition to SS bikes.
It's not the same power but you don't get freaked out with the power or less alarmed when the front end lifts etc.
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Street? Not as much. The dirt helped me recognize the things I need to avoid in the street.
Also, those that have ridden street exclusively tend to get panicked when the bike gets loose. Chop the throttle etc.
The dirt helps learn what the machine will do and what needs to be done to ride it out etc.
And the principles carry over to the street.
Especially when traction is limited.
There are differences of course. But there is a lot that crosses over.
Even having a two stroke with abrupt power band helps with transition to SS bikes.
It's not the same power but you don't get freaked out with the power or less alarmed when the front end lifts etc.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
More like 30 hp is fun, 180hp demands experience and respect. Sure you can be stupid on any bike, but the point of this discussion is what's learned in the crossover. My point is I don't think my time on dirt and ice has transferred much if anything to my road skills, and vice versa. That's my experience over a few decades of riding - maybe i'm just too old to remember if I gained anything from crossover riding. Your experience is different, if it's helping you become a better rider -- that great!
I'm planning on adding a Super Tenere (my first choice, but could be something similar) to the stable this winter. Perhaps I'll find some meaning/benefit to have ridden both street and dirt next season when I'm pounding fire roads.
Ride a proper dirtbike (450 4s/ 250+ 2s MX bike) and tell me it doesn’t demand respect and experience. My 250 caught me off guard 3 times last weekend. My ZX10 did that maybe twice all season.
The principals of how to keep the bike upright when traction is lost front or rear are identical on ALL bikes, period (even bicycles). Body positioning is different. Applying the brakes is again identical, too much and you loose traction which requires the same reaction to recover from.
I dont understand how riding a dirtbike is nothing like riding on the street to people. It’s still a damn bike. You may not realize that you’ve gained feel and skill from it or maybe you just weren’t paying attention.
I don't know how you could make dirt experience mandatory, but it would be a good idea. I started riding at 12 on dirt bikes, raced MX seriously for 8 years, as well as enduros, as soon as I turned 16 I got my street license. My dirt experience was invaluable in operating my first street bike, saved my *** many, many times. When I got really foolish and went "super bike" racing I was shocked how much dirt riding experience came into play. Back in the those days tire technology wasn't what it is today, and rear end slides were common place, and initiating "drifts" was a racing technique, all made easier as a result of riding in the dirt. Bottom line, dirt experience helps you when the bike gets a little squirrelly , you're dirt reflexes kick in and you make some adjustments, whether you add throttle or rear brake or whatever. It isn't a coincidence that Jordan Szoke is the current top dog and he races on asphalt and rides trials.
Honda CRF450r eh?? .....my kid had one ....guy he bought from was a hardcore pipefitter, Harley rider no pussy but he was scared to death of it so we got a good deal.
Riding dirt helps - especially new riders who might panic hitting gravel or other debris - best possible thing for new riders is take a course at Chatsworth - have fun and learn a lot ..including how to fall.
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