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Side mounted license plate

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TK4 said:
Jeez, this isn't that hard - DON'T HIDE THE PLATE !
Turning this into a political/legal discussion is like a dog chasing its own tail.
Its not that tough people....
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Is the dog’s tail OEM or aftermarket ???

Surprised no one has suggested mounting the plate in stock position upside down...someone will...eventually.
 
GreyGhost said:
Who can find the actual laws/regulations we are arguing about here? I can't find the relevant section of CMVSS.

I found this in Reg 628:
(4) The number plate for a motorcycle, motor assisted bicycle or trailer shall be attached to and exposed in a conspicuous position on the rear of the vehicle. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 628, s. 9 (4).

Defense of that one comes down to what is the rear of the vehicle. I think they mean the actual furthest point to the rear (otherwise they could have said facing the rear). Obviously even cars tuck the license plate in ~6" from the actual rear (bumper plus license plate indented area). Arguing that a foot forward of the rear of the bike is acceptable (similar to the plates in this discussion) could go either way (personally, I would argue they are not at the rear).

The side mounted plates are conspicuous so compliance with that statement shouldn't be a problem. Many undertails are neither rear nor exposed nor conspicuous so you are just asking to lose.

EDIT:
Stolen from another forum and in regards to front plates, but they seem to be correct and it would also apply to this discussion. " The HTA uses "to the front" to describe things like prohibited lights that cannot be visible from the front of the vehicle, no matter where they are mounted. The wording being "on the front" implies that the plate must be attached to the most forward point of the vehicle, namely the front bumper cover or the grille area."
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"On the rear" can also mean any place rearward of the middle of the motorcycle. If the centre is the centre, anything aft of that is the rear. Anything fore of that is the front. The law doesn't say "on the rearmost" which would put the plate at the very back.
 
MLadin said:
This thread is turning into a thing, and rightly so. I watched the OPP spot check every bike into the Wasaga Beach Motorcycle Rally. Of course they let the cruiser crowd go right in, but every sportbike without an OEM plate holder was pulled over and told the plate must be the last thing on the rear of the bike protruding outwards. This was set up like an actual spot check at the corner where Pizza Dee's is. Undertail plates were ticketed. There are several videos on YouTube in the US explaining the same thing to sportbike riders pulled over. So the question is, is this a made-up law to harass sport riders or is it for real or does it or has it actually been challenged in court with an actual case number. If it hasn't, this should be considered police street justice and not law and every cop everywhere should be asked to cite the statute roadside.

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Well isn't the reference written on the ticket? Fairly certain demanding the details road side will be met with a brush off.

Now if the cop has no intention to ticket and is just breaking balls then yeah id call them on it too.
 
I have a bike which has the plate facing rearward but not on the stock bracket (which is a foot-and-a-half-long arm). Yes, it has a plate lamp (not the OEM one but a white lamp nonetheless).

If I were ever presented with a cop complaining about that, I'd be sure to take a clandestine photo of the way that plate is mounted with either the cop or the cop car in the same photo (to forestall arguments in court about modifying it after receiving the ticket) and then take detailed photos showing the lack of anything on the bike obstructing it to either side, and to show that you would have to be probably 75 degrees upward for the top of the tail section of the bike to start obstructing it and lying on the ground 6 inches behind the rear tire for the tire to obstruct it. Then I'd find a cop H-D with the top box and take a few photos showing that their own bikes have a plate that is more "obstructed" from the top (top box) and bottom (taillamp) than mine is, and a photo of my car showing that my car's stock license plate lamp and tailgate release handle assembly causes the plate to be more "obstructed" from the top than the bike's plate is and the car's stock bumper causing the plate to be more "obstructed" from the bottom than the bike's plate is ... then take it all to court. And I'm fully prepared to file harrassment complaints if it ever happened for a second time.

I doubt if it ever will.
 
The stock tail mount works really well for mounting a rear facing video camera!
I don't even like those tail tidy things, they make your sport bike look like everybody else's sport bike, I like my bike to look unique and I don't like to get pulled over and harassed by cops so I keep it stock.

Side mount license plates <- just plain dumb, they don't stop any road spray, you can easy slash your leg on it and it creates additional wind resistance, mounting stuff on a swingarm contributes to unsprung weight and shakes the heck out of lights unless you already ride a hard tail, somebody might trip over it or slash their leg when it's parked next to a bunch of other motorcycles and then I'd probably get my *** sued for that. The only up side is that it makes your bike look chopper or bobber like :| wait, that's not an up side. Nope there is no up side.

OMG the sun just came out! Time to go riding before it
aw crap, cancel that, it's gone again.
 
The HTA section doesn't state that the plate has to be "the last thing" sticking out on the rear of the bike. read the section as posted earlier in this thread. They are exempt from certain sections of the HTA, by statute, IE the requirement to wear a seat belt, or the cell phone exemption, (generally the exemptions are for safety or logistical requirements). Don't blame the officer, your "beef" is with the civil servants who drafted the legislation and the politicians who enacted it.

As for the 407, they are exempted, because under the contract with the PRIVATE company that owns the highway, the OPP vehicles are exempted from tolls, therefore, they are not required to have their plates visible.

Not sure, again what the big deal is... leave your plate where the manufacturer placed it, (as per the regulations). If you "feel" the need to be "special" then be responsible for your decision. IF you truly have a conviction in your beliefs, then as part of that conviction, you should be willing to accept the consequences of that belief. Just as those who decide to join the military then become a "conscientious objector" must be willing to accept that there will be consequences for their conviction in their beliefs.

As I stated when I first chimed in, put your plate where ever you want, just don't be amazed when you get pulled over for your decision. Fight it all the way to the Supreme Court, (It is your 100 of thousands of dollars, not mine). I could care less. OR leave the plate where the manufacturer placed it and ride hassle and carefree, (That personally is my choice).

MLadin said:
BS... according to them the plate must be the last thing sticking out at the rear of the bike. Hence the hideous OEM plate holders that come on today's bikes. They're all clearly in violation of a law they're enforcing. Just like them riding side-by-side a foot apart. To anyone else in Toronto that would be a stunting charge. They are exempt for what reason? Shouldn't the law set an example of law?

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hedo2002 said:
The HTA section doesn't state that the plate has to be "the last thing" sticking out on the rear of the bike. read the section as posted earlier in this thread. They are exempt from certain sections of the HTA, by statute, IE the requirement to wear a seat belt, or the cell phone exemption, (generally the exemptions are for safety or logistical requirements). Don't blame the officer, your "beef" is with the civil servants who drafted the legislation and the politicians who enacted it.

As for the 407, they are exempted, because under the contract with the PRIVATE company that owns the highway, the OPP vehicles are exempted from tolls, therefore, they are not required to have their plates visible.

Not sure, again what the big deal is... leave your plate where the manufacturer placed it, (as per the regulations). If you "feel" the need to be "special" then be responsible for your decision. IF you truly have a conviction in your beliefs, then as part of that conviction, you should be willing to accept the consequences of that belief. Just as those who decide to join the military then become a "conscientious objector" must be willing to accept that there will be consequences for their conviction in their beliefs.

As I stated when I first chimed in, put your plate where ever you want, just don't be amazed when you get pulled over for your decision. Fight it all the way to the Supreme Court, (It is your 100 of thousands of dollars, not mine). I could care less. OR leave the plate where the manufacturer placed it and ride hassle and carefree, (That personally is my choice).
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Point being the OPP Golden Heads or whatever they're called are breaking the law:

Section 13(2) of the H.T.A. states:

"Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried."

Clearly the plates on those HD's can only be seen from directly behind as all the bags / cases / lights etc are obstructing reading the plate from another lane by another LEO.

They are abusing this law to harass sportbike riders who have undertail plates. I have witnessed the spot checks as thousands of motorcycles arrive in Wasaga Beach every year for the Wasaga Beach Motorcycle Rally.

This should be seen as harassment and done away with by the federal government as carding the public for no reason was.

This would make a great defence if ever charged.

"Do as I say not as I do..." would go a long way with a judge as judges tend to not like cops who abuse the law, which they are clearly doing.

Check out these American cops hiding their plates:

https://youtu.be/VgLqqoiMLo0
 
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MLadin said:
Check out these American cops hiding their plates:

https://youtu.be/VgLqqoiMLo0
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That was a little bit funny. "This will not be tolerated". Apparently it is tolerated as there are many sitting outside police stations with the plates covered. They could fill a few ticket books at lunch time if it was intolerable. I think the real thing that isn't tolerated is the spotlight on us vs them.
 
GreyGhost said:
That was a little bit funny. "This will not be tolerated". Apparently it is tolerated as there are many sitting outside police stations with the plates covered. They could fill a few ticket books at lunch time if it was intolerable. I think the real thing that isn't tolerated is the spotlight on us vs them.
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It was tolerated until the press called them out in public on it.
 
The difference being the police plates are situated as best as possible due to vehicle working requirements, (they are REQUIRED to have identifying markers such as the word police and the emergency lights clearly visible. Someone, on a sport bike with their plate tucked under the tail and then bent up so it doesn't hit the rear tire, and is totally obstructed is a CHOICE of that rider, because they are "special and entitled."

The officer does NOT decide, where the plate is located, on the equipment they are provided. If it sticks so badly in your craw, then write to the Commissioner of the OPP with your complaint, I am sure when the bikes were being purchased and designed, it is done so as to be compliant, while still fulfilling the operational requirements. Despite your objections. Now if they place something OVER their plate to conceal the plate that is a different story. I can't comment on the US police bikes as I am not aware of what the law states in each state. The Youtube video, you posted, is also for PERSONAL vehicles NOT government owned vehicles. Those officers, SHOULD be tagged, for their PERSONAL vehicles. I can only comment on Ontario regs.

If they are stopping mass sport bikes at Wasaga, for vehicle equipment checks, that has already been ruled as acceptable by the courts. I guess if sport bike riders didn't as you state, have their plates undertail, (which is clearly a violation), then there would be no need for them to stop to check the bikes and issue tickets for the violations. SO as many have already stated leave your plate where the manufacturer put it and there would be NO need for enforcement. You can't have it both ways... We put our plates in a location KNOWING it is illegal, but also want NO enforcement.

You are a strong supporter of the Wasaga bike rally. I can assure you if the OPP let everyone do as they please the locals would be screaming for it to shut down within 1 - 2 years. I guess you don't realize that EVERY event of large scale has an increased police presence and enforcement, (breaking news for you... last Sunday, there was a larger police presence during the Santa parade)...lol But then most people tend to NOT break the law, then complain when they are targeted for increased enforcement.

So rather than whine about the enforcement, why not whine to the sport bike riders, who are hooligans on the 400 series highways, run with NO insurance, run with obstructed or NO plates, or hit the rev limiter at EVERY opportunity. If all those activities weren't being done by riders... guess what NO need for increased scrutiny and enforcement. It is akin to those who complain about increased police presence in "their community" yet the next day are complaining that the "cops aren't doing anything" when someone they know gets shot or murdered. Can't have it both ways. Maybe if a certain demographic in the riding community cleaned up their act and those of us who aren't part of that demographic condemned their actions, rather than say well they are being hassled, the scrutiny wouldn't be there? But no it is easier to bash, than deal with the issues.

As for the argument, "well their plate is obstructed your honor, therefore, I can have mine obstructed" is laughable, and you know it. I guess if you ever get a speeding ticket your defence would be well your honor, OTHER people speed, so I am not guilty, because they too weren't charged. GMAFB.

MLadin said:
Point being the OPP Golden Heads or whatever they're called are breaking the law:

Section 13(2) of the H.T.A. states:

"Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried."

Clearly the plates on those HD's can only be seen from directly behind as all the bags / cases / lights etc are obstructing reading the plate from another lane by another LEO.

They are abusing this law to harass sportbike riders who have undertail plates. I have witnessed the spot checks as thousands of motorcycles arrive in Wasaga Beach every year for the Wasaga Beach Motorcycle Rally.

This should be seen as harassment and done away with by the federal government as carding the public for no reason was.

This would make a great defence if ever charged.

"Do as I say not as I do..." would go a long way with a judge as judges tend to not like cops who abuse the law, which they are clearly doing.

Check out these American cops hiding their plates:

https://youtu.be/VgLqqoiMLo0
Click to expand...
 
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hedo2002 said:
The difference being the police plates are situated as best as possible due to vehicle working requirements, (they are REQUIRED to have identifying markers such as the word police and the emergency lights clearly visible. Someone, on a sport bike with their plate tucked under the tail and then bent up so it doesn't hit the rear tire, and is totally obstructed is a CHOICE of that rider, because they are "special and entitled."

The officer does NOT decide, where the plate is located, on the equipment they are provided. If it sticks so badly in your craw, then write to the Commissioner of the OPP with your complaint, I am sure when the bikes were being purchased and designed, it is done so as to be compliant, while still fulfilling the operational requirements. Despite your objections. Now if they place something OVER their plate to conceal the plate that is a different story. I can't comment on the US police bikes as I am not aware of what the law states in each state. The Youtube video, you posted, is also for PERSONAL vehicles NOT government owned vehicles. Those officers, SHOULD be tagged, for their PERSONAL vehicles. I can only comment on Ontario regs.

If they are stopping mass sport bikes at Wasaga, for vehicle equipment checks, that has already been ruled as acceptable by the courts. I guess if sport bike riders didn't as you state, have their plates undertail, (which is clearly a violation), then there would be no need for them to stop to check the bikes and issue tickets for the violations. SO as many have already stated leave your plate where the manufacturer put it and there would be NO need for enforcement. You can't have it both ways... We put our plates in a location KNOWING it is illegal, but also want NO enforcement.

You are a strong supporter of the Wasaga bike rally. I can assure you if the OPP let everyone do as they please the locals would be screaming for it to shut down within 1 - 2 years. I guess you don't realize that EVERY event of large scale has an increased police presence and enforcement, (breaking news for you... last Sunday, there was a larger police presence during the Santa parade)...lol But then most people tend to NOT break the law, then complain when they are targeted for increased enforcement.

So rather than whine about the enforcement, why not whine to the sport bike riders, who are hooligans on the 400 series highways, run with NO insurance, run with obstructed or NO plates, or hit the rev limiter at EVERY opportunity. If all those activities weren't being done by riders... guess what NO need for increased scrutiny and enforcement. It is akin to those who complain about increased police presence in "their community" yet the next day are complaining that the "cops aren't doing anything" when someone they know gets shot or murdered. Can't have it both ways. Maybe if a certain demographic in the riding community cleaned up their act and those of us who aren't part of that demographic condemned their actions, rather than say well they are being hassled, the scrutiny wouldn't be there? But no it is easier to bash, than deal with the issues.

As for the argument, "well their plate is obstructed your honor, therefore, I can have mine obstructed" is laughable, and you know it. I guess if you ever get a speeding ticket your defence would be well your honor, OTHER people speed, so I am not guilty, because they too weren't charged. GMAFB.
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"You sport bike guys..." lol Enough said. Meaning you've said enough.

Cop bike or not, they are still breaking the law according to how the HTA is written. They don't need all that junk around the plate. The LED light bars on cop SUV's are smaller. They are obstructed plates and they are breaking the law according to the writing of the HTA. They also break the law riding to and from their stunting events... riding side-by-side in the same lane on a motorcycle is illegal.

I don't know what world you're living in man, but from license plates to murder, it's all the same, police have gone wrong.

"I can't breath..." This black man said "I can't breath six times!" The crime? Selling cigarettes! They killed him. Every one of them should be in a jail for murder / attempted murder or manslaughter... but none of them are.

https://youtu.be/yTItnsvuE3A

From the little things, to the grand things, police are now the enemy. They are a gang of high school educated thugs with the key to the city. Avoid them at all cost.

I would be dead or in jail had I been there to see that black man choked to death as I would have jumped in to help him.



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Meh, I don't think any of it is illegal. I can see the cop plate. I can see the side mounted plate. If you can see it clearly from the rear it's legal. That's pretty much how the law is written. Sport bike guys? Well let's be honest, a certain element among them make the plate difficult to see for a reason. But some car drivers do too. Not here to pass judgement on anyone though.
 
I'd argue side mounted sideways is somewhat illegible. We don't learn to read digits sideways, so it's not as quickly identifiable...and that's why we have plates.
 
why are we arguing about this?

take it to court and argue with the judge



JUST END THIS THREAD ALREADY FOR GOD SAKE!!!
 
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JollyGreenGiant said:
why are are arguing about this?

take it to court and argue with the judge



JUST END THIS THREAD ALREADY FOR GOD SAKE!!!
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No idea. Last I checked, my plate location is my responsibility. My bike still has all stock lighting, fenders and plate mount. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I also don't care at all what others do to their bikes, including the Opp.
Also, cops are "the enemy" lmao.

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