Rider Aids hate | GTAMotorcycle.com

Rider Aids hate

bigpoppa

bigpoppa

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Whats with the hate on rider aids?

Have had several people(both friends and random strangers) bemoan TC, rider modes etc

"well you dont need TC for the street, afterall you are nowhere near the bikes limit, unless your at the track in which case it is a great tool!"

or

"I can control my right wrist/throttle"

Here are the opinions of two top level pros((Chris vermeulens(Motogp, WSBK) and Keith Code)) in a nutshell on TC and other aids
(Feel free to read the lengthy informative articles for yourselves)


Keith Code: "So far this year, over 400 of our students have run 49,000 track miles at 4 tracks in 13 days of riding. The training was conducted in all sorts of weather, including rain, on our 2010 BMW S1000RRs fitted with Dynamic Traction Control and Race ABS systems. Yes, we run the first session in Rain Mode which limits the power output to “only” 150 bhp. After the first ride students are allow to go for the full power.The bike provides an electronic cushion that forgives the rider some of the more common errors. This curtails panic; riders have that cushion and it provides time to gather themselves together before it escalates to out-of-control proportions. At the same time, NO, the bike cannot and will not forgive truly stupid riding.
Here are the results. Compared to the 600s we’ve used for the past 30 years; 12 million miles of track training; over 125,000 students; at 106 tracks around the world…our crash ratio has reduced by 400%. In real world numbers it looks like this: Last year we had 1.2 crashes per per school day average. This year so far, it’s down to a very convincing 0.3 per day."
**(http://www.ridergroups.com/402/keith-code-motorcycle-technology-can-save-your-life/)


Chris Vermeulens(On TC in the Rain): "Q: Do you use traction control?A: I had traction control throughout my GP career and it’s very handy in the rain. When I first went out on a wet track, I would wick it up and gradually turn it down as you get more feel for the grip levels. I would basically use the traction control to understand where the grip is. I wouldn’t do that on the road. Traction control, like ABS, is a great safety barrier. It lets you make a mistake without crashing. If it’s cutting in all the time you haven’t learnt where the grip is. But you never can fully know grip levels on the road, like you can on a racetrack. We go round lap after lap on the same circuit and there are track marshals there to warn us if there is an oil spill. We know what is in front of us. On the road, you have no idea what dangers lie ahead."
**(https://motorbikewriter.com/chris-vermeulens-wet-riding-tips/)

I'm all for riders learning proper throttle control and braking, and I'm sure they wont make up for stupidity , and most intelligent riders will know how to control their throttles, brakes, and stay sharp, but out on the road(especially in sketchy conditions like gravel, or rain) i'll take every advantage and safety margin i can get, to ensure me(and the bike) get home safe. Wouldn't it be prudent to welcome this and other technology as boon and a blessing rather than something to look down upon, that 'real riders' wont need?

Especially when modern TC can help without most people even noticing, and comes with the option to shut it off entirely for when your feeling bold


No one complains about seat belts, air bags(both of which you don't 'need' until that day comes when you DO need them, and are thankful they are there) then why the hate towards rider aids? Abs, TC, etc?



Edit:
Another aspect i forgot to mention, cost.
If your going to be spending your hard earned money, you'd like to get the most bang for your buck, why wouldn't you want the most gadgets for your bike, that you can adjust or turn off/on altogether at will?
 
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From what I've heard, the main issue is that it promotes laziness.
If it's there you practice very little, or not at all.
 
All the cool riders died in a crack up and they liked it
 
Electronic aids break with the romantic notion of motorcycles being for rebels, strong, capable individuals who never need help, and certainly would never ask for any if they did. They think they're in perfect control of every aspect of their lives and don't need a 'nanny' to look after them.
 
Its not rider aids. Its an electronic advancement. It makes most bikes and even GP level riders faster.

The bemoaning against ABS, gyro inclinometers, TC and programmable electronics is usually loudest by those that don't understand them, and fear change.
 
Some of us do all our own maintenance and would like to keep it somewhat simple, some of us simply don't need some of the aids. Abs is one I wouldn't mind, my 650 versys certainly doesn't need tc or electronic suspension. I think the real reason the high end bikes require all these "rider aids" is because they have so much power these days that your average rider can't control it without them.
Personally I don't think I'd be able to fix electronic suspension, gyroscopes, etc in my garage at home. I've been riding since I was 6, 44 now and not one of the 80 something bikes I've owned have ever been to the dealership other than my wheels for tire changes. My wife's new Gladius has abs, so now I have to learn how that affects fluid changes, brake bleeding etc.

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk
 
When I had my Tuono I liked some of the aids and didn't use others it was cool though how the features had different settings so you could control how much intervention there was.

I used to set it like
abs- on the street setting because in an emergency stop it has more skill then me.
Tc- on a low setting to prevent massive wheel spin but still allowed the tire to spin up. Fun.
wheelie control- Off. Power wheelies are cool.

Quick shifters are awesome.

On litre bikes this this stuff is really cool. When I had 600's I would of liked the abs for a little safety net and I'll always take a quick shifter. Otherwise the other two I'd probably just turn off. I imagine if I rode track I'd set things up a little different though.
 
Good read. Thanks @bigpoppa .

Let's face it...there will always be people who embrace technological advancements, and those who don't... all for their own reasons.

I still own (and occasionally ride) a bike with a front drum brake because I love the old bikes. At the same time I think the new bikes with riding modes and switchable settings are pretty f***ing amazing.
 
It's a romantic concept about bikes being these fairly simple mechanical creations that can move you. A magic electronic box that does stuff is a mystery, a carburetor that is 100% mechanical is beautiful in a way. For many, there's an instinctual attraction to mechanical engineering.

One of the things that I love about my KTM is the simplicity, there is almost zero electronics. I don't mean aids, the whole bike, there are maybe four fuses for thole bike. It even has a kickstarter.

Saying that, my next touring bike will have abs and likely traction control. Romantic thoughts about simplicity and mechanical beauty aside, I'll take the functionality.
 
Meh, a motorcycle is a bicycle for the lazy, non-athletic people. Don't know why they're even allowed on the roads. #pedalpower
 
I ride my bike on public roads, not a race track.

I dont need assists to keep my back wheel from spinning in a corner or locking up because I jammed the brakes, I'm not riding right at the edge of handling.

"Rider assists" promote a feeling of complacency when riding because if you **** up, the assists will save you.

More things to break that I cant fix because I dont have a 50k dollar diagnostic machine.

I do complain about the same thing in cars. My car has ABS as its most advanced feature. I wouldnt care if it didnt have it, its only my second car out of about 15 that has had ABS. Most didnt even have power steering, which I also dislike.

But, I also dont care if people want these features. There will always be bikes without them available, even if it means I have to ride a 30+ year old bike. If other people want these features, thats their choice.

These same arguments will be brought up when self driving cars become affordable and available to everyone. I wont buy one. I want to drive my own car, not have it driven for me. Maybe its statistically safer, its besides the point for me.
 
I'm sure there were "purists" that hated the advent of electric-start over kick-starting. Or electronic ignition over points or points over magnetos. Or of suspension over "hard tails" and forks over springers. Some folks remain that way for certain classes of bike. More power to 'em.

I don't know what the future holds but I personally believe the advent of stability-enhancing aids such as ABS, TC and even WC on more powerful street bikes couldn't come soon enough for what are fundamentally inherently unstable machines, a single-fault "incident" upon which could lead to serious injury.
 
bobjohnson said:
I ride my bike on public roads, not a race track.

1) I dont need assists to keep my back wheel from spinning in a corner or locking up because I jammed the brakes, I'm not riding right at the edge of handling.

"Rider assists" promote a feeling of complacency when riding because if you **** up, the assists will save you.

2) More things to break that I cant fix because I dont have a 50k dollar diagnostic machine.

I do complain about the same thing in cars. My car has ABS as its most advanced feature. I wouldnt care if it didnt have it, its only my second car out of about 15 that has had ABS. Most didnt even have power steering, which I also dislike.

But, I also dont care if people want these features. There will always be bikes without them available, even if it means I have to ride a 30+ year old bike. If other people want these features, thats their choice.

These same arguments will be brought up when self driving cars become affordable and available to everyone. I wont buy one. I want to drive my own car, not have it driven for me. Maybe its statistically safer, its besides the point for me.
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1) By that logic, you dont 'Need" seat belts and air bags, why dont you take them out of your car?

2) I'm pretty sure you dont need advanced technology for things to start breaking down(See AMF harleys)

I am approaching rider technology from the perspective of safety, not riding aggressively or faster, or getting better lap times, or reaching the limits of traction.

I couldn't care less if they help make you faster at laguna seca, i do however care if it helps keep me a little bit safer.
And for the times I want to explore, i can simply turn them off.

On smooth and clean pavement, no one needs rider tech

Its when the rain starts and you discover the unexpected pool of diesel
Or that gravel mid corner

I respect peoples choices, if they want a bike without technology, more power to them(I like harleys as much as BMW bikes)
But I wont go out of my way to avoid modern/advancing technology, especially if it improves safety and quality of life

----
@Blackfin

Agreed, at some points im sure the purists were singing of doom and gloom when electric start(and other advancements) came along

In the dangerous world of motorcycling, I'll take every edge i can get, not because I want to go faster, or have better lap times, but because they haven't discovered a cure for death.
 
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It seems that there is a lot of hate on the ABS feature (typically by newer riders) because they heard it makes a rider reliant on it, and how they can brake faster without an ABS system, then passes it on as fact.

In ideal road conditions, an experienced rider could likely out brake an ABS in a controlled environment, however this is rarely the case on the street whether it be oil, sand, gravel, metal grates, painted lines, etc. Even an experienced rider can run into a bad situations when a car makes a left in front of them on wet roads which would never happen in controlled environments.

I've ridden an ABS equipped bike for 4 years and have only had it trigger once (unintentionally) when I had someone turn right in front of me at an intersection from 3 lanes over to the left, and took a good amount of braking for it to go off.. With the amount of braking for it to go off, I highly doubt anyone would become reliant on it unless they want to get rear-ended coming to a stop.

It only takes one instance for the safety feature to pay for itself.
 
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PLau said:
It seems that there is a lot of hate on the ABS feature (typically by newer riders) because they heard it makes a rider reliant on it, and how they can brake faster without an ABS system, then passes it on as fact.

In ideal road conditions, an experienced rider could likely out brake an ABS in a controlled environment, however this is rarely the case on the street whether it be oil, sand, gravel, metal grates, painted lines, etc. Even an experienced rider can run into a bad situations when a car makes a left in front of them on wet roads which would never happen in controlled environments.

I've ridden an ABS equipped bike for 4 years and have only had it trigger once (unintentionally) when I had someone turn right in front of me at an intersection from 3 lanes over to the left, and took a good amount of braking for it to go off.. With the amount of braking for it to go off, I highly doubt anyone would become reliant on it unless they want to get rear-ended coming to a stop.

It only takes one instance for the safety feature to pay for itself.
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Agree

You also forgot....water(!!)
 
And if it improves motorcycle safety ie. reduced accidents, then maybe...just maybe it flows through to lower insurance rates.
 
I know some give a *MINOR* discount for ABS, but i wouldn't count on it
 
I'm all for anything that helps me go faster, stop quicker and crash less. But at the sametime, I never had any of these rider aids and I'm like the bestest rider ever. So in summary who gives a ....
 
Blackfin said:
I'm sure there were "purists" that hated the advent of electric-start over kick-starting.
Click to expand...

Why don't we get kickstart street bikes anymore? It at least triples how cool you look when leaving on your bike. They could still do it with EFI, they do it with dirtbikes
 
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