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Rider Aids hate

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TwistedKestrel said:
Why don't we get kickstart street bikes anymore? It at least triples how cool you look when leaving on your bike. They could still do it with EFI, they do it with dirtbikes
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Because in addition to carbs, with kickstars, by the time you finally get that thing going, the riding season in Canada would be over
 
bigpoppa said:
No one complains about seat belts, air bags(both of which you don't 'need' until that day comes when you DO need them, and are thankful they are there) then why the hate towards rider aids? Abs, TC, etc?
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Actually, many people complained about the cost of seat belts and that they weren't really needed. Rather than be crushed in a car it would be better to be "thrown free". I saw this in print many times and have heard people say this mid to late sixties through seventies. Same type of comments with airbags later. Over 50 years after seat belts became available and with seat belt laws in ON about 5% - 10% of people still don't use them. Often these are the people who are ejected from a vehicle in an accident and more often than not being "thrown free" doesn't end well for them.

TC and abs will probably be standard equipment in 10 - 20 years on most bikes and there will be always be people saying these are useless features. The number of people saying this will diminish over time, just as it has with seat belts and airbags.

I don't disagree that that the added complexity of abs, linked brakes, TC etc.... makes repairs more costly and may limit some owners from maintaining their bikes.
 
ReSTored said:
Actually, many people complained about the cost of seat belts and that they weren't really needed. Rather than be crushed in a car it would be better to be "thrown free". I saw this in print many times and have heard people say this mid to late sixties through seventies. Same type of comments with airbags later. Over 50 years after seat belts became available and with seat belt laws in ON about 5% - 10% of people still don't use them. Often these are the people who are ejected from a vehicle in an accident and more often than not being "thrown free" doesn't end well for them.

TC and abs will probably be standard equipment in 10 - 20 years on most bikes and there will be always be people saying these are useless features. The number of people saying this will diminish over time, just as it has with seat belts and airbags.

I don't disagree that that the added complexity of abs, linked brakes, TC etc.... makes repairs more costly and may limit some owners from maintaining their bikes.
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I wager in 5-10 years they will be standard equipment, and probably mandatory(or atleast they should be)

In EU abs is infact mandatory on bikes now, i dont know why in NA it isn't they keep selling models with the option to buy slightly cheaper without ABS/TC etc...
I would rather spend a few extra bucks to get them on the standard models....no one should have to choose between a few bucks and their safety(especially on a motorcycle, in the GTA of all places....) if those few dollars are a big deal to you, perhaps reconsider your finances?


I also read that in some places(europe or elsewhere) people are having a hard time selling/reselling bikes that dont have ABS...so it would not only be beneficial in terms of safety, but if you ever want to sell your bike...(something to consider)


As for complexity, maintenance and money, it doesn't stop all those aprilia/ducati/mv agusta owners?
There are always going to be bikes that are more expensive to repair, more expensive to find parts for, it doesn't stop those who really want those bikes....
Regardless, in the unlikely event that maintenance does end up becoming a huge problem(which i doubt in 2018, especially with Japanese bikes), just give frekey a call, problem solved :icon_smile:
 
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Rider aides make sense on some bikes. A lot of bikes are coming out of the box with well over 100hp, and more than a few with more than 150hp. In ideal settings, road conditions etc you probably still don't need any of these. However, add some rain, an emergency situation, or a momentary lack of attention and these aides suddenly become the difference between crashing and not crashing.

I don't understand why they are adding so many aides to smaller bikes. I don't think you need TC or power modes on bikes with 70hp. I do understand the safety of ABS and it makes sense to have it on all road bikes regardless of size.
 
ABS is showing up on everything 125cc and up because if you want to sell that model in Europe "thou shalt". It's required.

Power modes etc on a fuel injected drive-by-wire engine are cheap. A switch on the handlebar (often used for other functions thus adding no incremental cost) and some software.

I want to have the rider aids. My newest bike has all of this. But I want an "off" button. If I want to do a wheelie or stoppie or burnout, I don't want the electronics saying "nope".
 
Current ride has TC and ABS
Don't think the TC has ever activated
But on the street I think ABS is a no brainer

On a closed course I think there should none of that gadgetry
 
its the nature of the bike scene is to find some way to be elitist/purist.

This whole community has a judgmental/cliquey aspect to it. That's why the attitudes perpetuate...you cling onto a group for belonging, and really have no clue why you hate HD, metrics, cops, technology, gear, no gear, douchevests, slippers, helmet mohawks, exhusts, loud pipes, bad rider skills, hi beams/lowbeams, fancy led accent lights, fat tires, skinnytires, big vs small displacement, ape hangers, café bars, sons of anarchy, go-pros, plate relocations, flip up plates, HIDs, cheap ebay knock off parts, overpriced name parts, tims vs starbucks, guys/girls with full race parts heading to coffee shops etc...

that's only a few examples. :p
 
bigpoppa said:
Because in addition to carbs, with kickstars, by the time you finally get that thing going, the riding season in Canada would be over
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That's awful bold (and mostly bunk). I own bikes with carbs and kickstarters. Stop by sometimes and I'll show how simple it can be.
 
timtune said:
That's awful bold (and mostly bunk). I own bikes with carbs and kickstarters. Stop by sometimes and I'll show how simple it can be.
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Also in extreme conditions (like wet or cold), a strong kick will always be more dependable than a starter motor. We put in kick start kits in our enduros. I think they're essential for snow bikes.

Kick is also better for flooded bikes, but not necessarily good for your leg though...
 
^

i wish...

before the last couple of weeks, haven't had a chance to read up on general motorcycle industry news since 2018ish. now that i have been again, thought i would share.

the self steering patent from honda is interesting, where it kicks in when it is unmanned and still riding straight.

i immediately thought of all the stunt videos of guys falling off and the bike continuing on.
 
Wish I had cruise control and the more advanced ABS on my bike. Traction control would be a nice to have.

Not sure it's worth $15,000 for ~20 years though.
 
Not a big fan of TC or ABS except in the rain. Off-road the TC will stall your bike every time you try to climb a steep/slippery/sandy/bumpy hill. I can turn TC off, but it's never really completely off and if the bike stalls the TC automatically turns back on. Got so angry about it one day I swore I would sell the bike. I still might.
 
Roadghost said:
Not a big fan of TC or ABS except in the rain. Off-road the TC will stall your bike every time you try to climb a steep/slippery/sandy/bumpy hill. I can turn TC off, but it's never really completely off and if the bike stalls the TC automatically turns back on. Got so angry about it one day I swore I would sell the bike. I still might.
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I haven't ridden a bike with computerized help but I remember the old days of vehicle TC and it was miserable. Trying to climb a very icy hill near my parents and was going to make it as I had a big run up with lots of speed and TC chopped the throttle and slammed on the brakes to try to help me and control wheel spin. Didn't make it over and it was too icy to stay in place so now I was spinning down the icy hill. F you TC, F you. Newer TC is much much better.
 
GreyGhost said:
I haven't ridden a bike with computerized help but I remember the old days of vehicle TC and it was miserable. Trying to climb a very icy hill near my parents and was going to make it as I had a big run up with lots of speed and TC chopped the throttle and slammed on the brakes to try to help me and control wheel spin. Didn't make it over and it was too icy to stay in place so now I was spinning down the icy hill. F you TC, F you. Newer TC is much much better.
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This really depends on how programmable the TC is and how much you can dial it back depending on the terrain. It's far from automatic, one setting definitely does not fit all situations.

A lot of ADV bikes boast that you can turn TC completely off in Enduro mode, but I'm sure street bikes don't have this option.

On a not-too-unrelated note, IIRC, you can't turn off ABS completely in Euro-5 compliant motorcycles.
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