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Home furnace shopping

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empty

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How do you shop for a new furnace and AC? Just trying to select the hardware right now. I think the installers would be dictated by the brand I choose?

Where can I look if I wanted to research all the options for the different brands? Go right to mfg's home page? Anywhere to find comparisons?

What about sizing it properly? One installer I talked to said they had a selector program. They asked for age, size and type of house, then it spit out furnace size. I'm looking for better analysis than that.

I'm in Mississauga, house is early 70s. Forced air gas furnace. Still have stack going up to roof.
 
There are some HVAC types on the forum but in my case I called a local outfit and he was a no BS type. We went over the options from basic to Star trek and ended up with a Lennox second from the top.

The old furnace was about 25 so didn't owe us anything but it was noisy compared to the new one. Mechanical relays and constant speed motor made the rec room less than ideal. So far no problems. FWIW Andy @ Sipco 416-232-2262.

In my case the age of the house would have given us a system over twice what we need as I have re-insulated walls and ceilings.

Decades ago I did calculation for heat loss as part of a course I was on and it included window sizes and orientation, lighting, R values, even trees. I'm pretty sure it's done by computer now but measurements still have to be taken. Over sizing can create problems.
 
Needed a new furnace awhile ago and had a few HVAC guys come and quote. All were within a few hundred of each other, around 5K for an ultra high efficiency gas unit with the variable DC motor. Got looking around on the net for the Amana unit that looked the best. Paid 1500 cash for it brand new in the box from a place in upstate NY. Made in USA so it was duty free. Paid the HST coming across the border, then 750 to a licensed installer for the duct work and new gas line. All in well under half what the local guys were charging.
 
I would focus on the installer first and product second. I'm not convinced that there are huge differences between manufacturers but I am convinced that a bad install will cause problems with any product. I picked what I thought were the best installers and still was unimpressed by their work. When I do it again, I will try to find a small company (<5 people) to do the work.

FWIW I got a Lennox SLP98 ~7 years ago. Installer had some installation difficulties and needed to come back a few times. A pressure switch failed a few years ago and was replaced under warranty. No other problems.
 
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The only advice that I can give is that you go for the off brand of what is essentially the same product as the brand name. Iirc ArcoAire is Keeprite, General is Lennox etc. (I may have them wrong, it's been a while) You can usually save a few bucks like that.

Don't know your location, but if you are east, my BIL has an HVAC business. Pm me if you want his deets.

sent from my Purple LGG4 on the GTAM app
 
Brian P said:
http://www.reliable-mechanical.ca/

Kris Garvie, CSBK racer, is also an HVAC guy. (Fixed my air conditioner, installed a new furnace at a friend's house)
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Did my A/C, furnace will be next ... Kris is honest guy who will sell you only what your house really needs. Will explain pluses and minuses of different brands as well as functions and works quickly in compliance with code.

Only downside is, he might be hard to get during summer racing season, at least that's what he always told me.
 
Joe Bass said:
The only advice that I can give is that you go for the off brand of what is essentially the same product as the brand name. Iirc ArcoAire is Keeprite, General is Lennox etc. (I may have them wrong, it's been a while) You can usually save a few bucks like that.
Click to expand...

Good advice, and don't be afraid to do the legwork yourself and just buy the furnace outright, get it in your basement, and pay a tradesperson to install it afterwards. There are HVAC wholesalers/suppliers out there (that supply downstream companies/installers) who will sell to the public if you ask. I deliver a lot of HVAC stuff and have asked (as our full HVAC system is nearly 30 years old and will need to be replaced soon) and I was astounded at the difference in price between small-markup direct from supplier vs what "the guys in the phonebook" charge for the same unit after they mark it up, not including the installation.

Be creative, save a ton.
 
Call up and speak to Sergie @ Lowes - he is super nice and cares .
Plus you have lowes backing you up.
 
nobbie48 said:
In my case the age of the house would have given us a system over twice what we need as I have re-insulated walls and ceilings.

Decades ago I did calculation for heat loss as part of a course I was on and it included window sizes and orientation, lighting, R values, even trees. I'm pretty sure it's done by computer now but measurements still have to be taken. Over sizing can create problems.
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Yes, I'm doing some energy renos as well and my existing furnace is probably already oversized. It doesn't run for very long when it comes on.

I think you're referring to "Manual J" calculation. There are lots of programs for this on the web.
 
JavaFan said:
Got looking around on the net for the Amana unit that looked the best. Paid 1500 cash for it brand new in the box from a place in upstate NY. Made in USA so it was duty free. Paid the HST coming across the border, then 750 to a licensed installer for the duct work and new gas line. All in well under half what the local guys were charging.
Click to expand...

Sounds like an interesting option. I assume there's no problem with US / Canada warranty?
 
Joe Bass said:
The only advice that I can give is that you go for the off brand of what is essentially the same product as the brand name. Iirc ArcoAire is Keeprite, General is Lennox etc.
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This goes back to my original question. Who are the players and how do they rate? Where can I find more info?
I've been warned that some of the big brand name guys require their own techs to do annual inspection/ service to maintain warranty. Or they have restricted access to spare parts so again, you have to use their own service guys.
 
PrivatePilot said:
I was astounded at the difference in price between small-markup direct from supplier vs what "the guys in the phonebook" charge for the same unit after they mark it up, not including the installation.

Be creative, save a ton.
Click to expand...

I used to know a guy doing custom home renovations. His costs were usually 100% to 200% of material cost for the installation portion.

Found out too late about Napoleon factory sales. They just stopped the practice.

Sounds like I should look into this since a few of you guys have managed to source you own furnace. I just have to figure out what I need.
 
empty said:
Sounds like an interesting option. I assume there's no problem with US / Canada warranty?
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Not sure... May be an issue with the labor portion of a repair. But I saved enough could have bought an entire extra furnace for parts and still saved a grand.
 
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its getting harder to find an HVAC wholesaler/distributor that will sell to the public, even getting gas fittings is harder. Third party liability is the culprit, you swear you'll hire 'the guy' for the install, then just hook it up. Then the family gets CO2 poisoned...

I had a guy come to the door with a leasing deal, I figure a new AC/furnace package should be 7-8k for a house like mine. With his lease I would pay that in 5-6 yrs, then just keep paying for 5 more. But they would come fix it 24hrs a day.....

I cant believe anybody would rent a furnace or waterheater or softener. It just makes no sense.
 
crankcall said:
its getting harder to find an HVAC wholesaler/distributor that will sell to the public, even getting gas fittings is harder. Third party liability is the culprit, you swear you'll hire 'the guy' for the install, then just hook it up. Then the family gets CO2 poisoned...

I had a guy come to the door with a leasing deal, I figure a new AC/furnace package should be 7-8k for a house like mine. With his lease I would pay that in 5-6 yrs, then just keep paying for 5 more. But they would come fix it 24hrs a day.....

I cant believe anybody would rent a furnace or waterheater or softener. It just makes no sense.
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My wife and I did this last year through Reliance. We went this option (furnace and AC) only because our furnace crapped out unexpectedly and did not have the money in the bank after having bought the house a year prior to buy anything outright. I know we will pay more in the long run (that's a no brainer) but I make sure that they come out every spring and fall to run though everything for peace of mind and to get my moneys worth.

If you have the money in the bank, then better route is to buy outright; with rent/lease options the benefit is that if there are any issues they are taken care of quickly and without any stress on my part...plus it saved us from trying to find a loan for 7-10k
 
I find the opposite... that it's easier now to get hvac equipment without a licence than it used to be.
I do believe that home owners are allowed to work on equipment in their own home.
 
crankcall said:
even getting gas fittings is harder. Third party liability is the culprit, you swear you'll hire 'the guy' for the install, then just hook it up.
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I asked the furnace repair guy how much for a cash water heater sign off (entire installation completed, they just test and attach a tag). He wanted $350 which seemed ridiculous. I was thinking 100-150 for that as he works in the area anyway and it wouldn't take much time. I'm not opposed to paying for help, but when the price gets crazy, I'll find a way to do it myself (especially when I see the quality of work that the professionals do).
 
Hey Guys,

I work for an hvac wholesaler and from my experience i'd be careful with anything Lennox. They like to make their parts very oddball. Its extremely hard to find aftermarket replacement parts for them (not sure what the warranty is though). They make it so that you have to go directly back to them for parts, they charge outrageous amounts and it can only be purchased by a contractor.

That being said buying anything hvac is just like buying a car or bike. Most contractors are brand biased and will push you towards units that they like for whatever reason. They all have pros and cons.

My two cents is when it comes to a/c don't go crazy for seer rating. The amount you end up paying for higher seer is not worth it here where we only have a handful of extremely hot days. It will take forever to make your money back. Furnace on the other hand, runs a lot longer as our winters seem to run longer than they should. Pay a few extra bucks for a two stage gas valve and maybe an upgraded motor.
 
My father in law had a maintenance program with Enbridge. One day the technician tells him that his his heat excanger is cracked and he needs a new furnace.Enbridge quotes him $6000. I had my HVAC friend Install one the next day for $2000 , it took him less than 4 hours and he still made almost $1000.Shame on you Enbridge.
 
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