How the hell do I insure my very expensive vintage restoration...under 30? | GTAMotorcycle.com

How the hell do I insure my very expensive vintage restoration...under 30?

drumstyx

Well-known member
So I spent the last 2 or 3 years doing a LOT of work and spending a LOT of money restoring a 1978 CB750, and it's finally ready. It's beautiful, it's appraised as essentially a brand new bike, and I need insurance!

My current insurer will write it into my policy, but they won't give me anything but liability because it doesn't have a 17 digit VIN.

Dalton Timmis and Mantha both do vintage, but presumably use the same underwriter, because both require me to be 30 to get it done.

One company will insure it that I know of, but at $2100 (more than I pay for both my other motorcycles combined!) for full coverage, I'd rather transfer it to someone else and have them store it for a few years...with fire/theft coverage in the meantime. It would kill me to have to do it, but it's better than paying more than all my other bikes combined for just this one.

I'm 26, and have been very fortunate to be able to both have bikes to ride, and finance this restoration. I'm not trying to game a system (as they assume I am, because I'm young), I just want insurance

Right now, if there's a fire or a theft, I'm totally screwed...how can I get this bloody thing insured?
 
Maybe ask at the local CVMG (Candian Vintage Motorcycle Group).
 
Maybe ask at the local CVMG (Candian Vintage Motorcycle Group).

Hmm, might take a trip out to the local meetup on Sunday morning to ask. Dalton Timmis is the only insurer/broker in sight on their website though, so I don't have high hopes...

Honestly it's the discrimination that really burns me up. I have an absolutely legitimate reason to be doing this, and would likely treat it even better than some other collectors out there -- I don't even want to ride it to many shows...I don't go out that often. For the most part I just want to be covered in the event of something extreme like a fire or theft. I've got other bikes to 'supe up and ride, this is just an $11000 decoration that runs. Truly a trailer queen.

I was posting here in the hopes that insurance insiders are here and can do something about it.
 
My current insurer will write it into my policy, but they won't give me anything but liability because it doesn't have a 17 digit VIN.

If it's legal coverage (i.e. includes SABs etc) that lets you take it on the road why not go this route? Collision and comp that important?
 
it's the fire and theft he's worried about.

That aside, $11k on a CB750? You must really like the bike. Pics!!!!
 
Insurers hate comp only coverage. Not sure why. Tdmm canceled the coverage my classic car because I hadn't had liability coverage turned on in over 11 months.

Since you don't plan on riding it and it doesn't have a 17 digit vin any chance you could get it insured as art? If you drain the fluids, that's basically all it is.
 
Get the liability only. Put what you save on collision into a trust. You'll be amazed how quickly that trust will grow. Look it's a vintage bike, even if you crash they will never give you anything near what it's worth and nobody will be able to repair it but you. Unless you have any vehicle less than 5 years old collision is a rip off.
 
I think there is some sort of 'show vehicle' insurance that you might want to look into. I know someone who did that with an old corvette. The only downside is you are not allowed to use it much (it's really designed just for taking it to local meets or backing it in/off trailers), but if they plan is less than say 2,000km a year, it might be something to investigate.

Granted all that is irrelevant if you plan on using it as a regular motorcycle. Given your post title says 'very expensive', no doubt they want a lot, given what they'd have to pay out if it were damaged or written off. Also being 26 you're still likely in a fairly high risk category as a younger rider.
 
I like the old bikes but don't know the market price wise. The first generation sand cast 750's are priced in astronautical terms.

After 1969 not so much but still a demand bike for some enthusiasts.

One restores things for the love of it unless you are being paid to restore someone else's toy.

A car example from a friend heavily into early Dodge Darts.

Buy a straight solid car for $8,000.00. Put $40,000.00 into it and sell it for $25,000.00.

An insurance company worries about intent when an item is insured for more than what it would cost to replace it.

Like I said, I don't know the old bike market and your situation may be different.
 
A friend has a '77 or '78 CB750K that he takes to shows.

He has it insured as vintage, which means he can't really ride it more than around the block a couple of times a year.

I'm not sure where he has it insured, but he has two other bikes to ride.

Is that the type of insurance that you were looking into?
 
For context, there's about $11-12k into it, and it's been appraised at $10,750. Realistically, the same value as a new bike, so as far as expense, it shouldn't be more than 400-500 a year for the comp and collision coverages on top of whatever liability is.

If it's legal coverage (i.e. includes SABs etc) that lets you take it on the road why not go this route? Collision and comp that important?

Mostly I'm worried about a fire. My tenant insurance specifically excludes vehicles, and as much as I begged, I couldn't get them to budge on that. I work on and restore many bikes that aren't insured until they're on the road. There is simply no way to get coverage on that stuff, which drives me nuts. That said, if I were restoring, say, a 1930's Harley which would cost somewhere around $10k in absolute PoS condition, I'm sure I could convince a bank to write a simple insurance policy as standard property insurance.

it's the fire and theft he's worried about.

That aside, $11k on a CB750? You must really like the bike. Pics!!!!

LHT3Jip.jpg


Insurers hate comp only coverage. Not sure why. Tdmm canceled the coverage my classic car because I hadn't had liability coverage turned on in over 11 months.

Since you don't plan on riding it and it doesn't have a 17 digit vin any chance you could get it insured as art? If you drain the fluids, that's basically all it is.

I'd like to be able to ride it to shows and the like (also to the family friend's place who sold me the bike in the first place). The vintage policy which allows 2,000km/year is more than enough, but as I mentioned, you have to be 30 to get it.

Get the liability only. Put what you save on collision into a trust. You'll be amazed how quickly that trust will grow. Look it's a vintage bike, even if you crash they will never give you anything near what it's worth and nobody will be able to repair it but you. Unless you have any vehicle less than 5 years old collision is a rip off.

With an appraisal, you usually get valued insurance -- that is, they pay you the value, period. That's also why new bike collision/comprehensive costs so much, since they'd have to pay 10k+ on a write-off claim. I'm alright with paying that extra, if only I could get someone to offer it for a reasonable rate (the only rate I've gotten is $2100, which is more than I pay for both my other on-road bikes combined)

I think there is some sort of 'show vehicle' insurance that you might want to look into. I know someone who did that with an old corvette. The only downside is you are not allowed to use it much (it's really designed just for taking it to local meets or backing it in/off trailers), but if they plan is less than say 2,000km a year, it might be something to investigate.

Granted all that is irrelevant if you plan on using it as a regular motorcycle. Given your post title says 'very expensive', no doubt they want a lot, given what they'd have to pay out if it were damaged or written off. Also being 26 you're still likely in a fairly high risk category as a younger rider.

There is, but you have to be 30 to get it. 2,000km is more than enough for what I want to do. I pay ~$1800/year for a Concours 1000 and a KLR650 together. A vintage policy on a vehicle valued in the vicinity of $10,000 is around $300-400/year. I'd happily pay more commensurate with the risk of being a younger driver, but the bottom line of it is you either get the vintage policy or you don't, and when you don't it costs a fortune and they don't write a valued policy (where they simply pay you the appraised value), though with an appraisal on hand I'm sure any claim could be argued up to very near that value regardless.



Anyway, currently my plan is to call my broker tomorrow and see what can be done now that I have an appraisal. I called before and they said they didn't want to give me anything but liability, which would have been something like $700-800/year. Maybe now with an appraisal on hand I can get something.
 
It wasn't four into four?
 
It wasn't four into four?

My greatest shame...OEM exhausts are tremendously expensive for these bikes, and reproductions are expensive considering they tend to not actually look like the originals.

The stainless Delkevic 4 into 1 pipes do sound amazing though
 
With an appraisal, you usually get valued insurance -- that is, they pay you the value, period. That's also why new bike collision/comprehensive costs so much, since they'd have to pay 10k+ on a write-off claim. I'm alright with paying that extra, if only I could get someone to offer it for a reasonable rate (the only rate I've gotten is $2100, which is more than I pay for both my other on-road bikes combined)

If you banked $2100 a year how long would it take before you covered the cost of the bike? 5 years? How likely are you to have an accident, fire or theft in that time?
 
If you banked $2100 a year how long would it take before you covered the cost of the bike? 5 years? How likely are you to have an accident, fire or theft in that time?

In the bigger picture of course you're right (which is why insurance is a viable industry in the first place) but at this point in my life my bikes have become the most significant part of my net worth by a large margin, and the CB750 is well over half that value all on its own. Minor damage that wouldn't mean much to the $2000 value of my KLR might mean this $10,000 bike becomes worth $2000 itself because it's no longer a pristine resto.

Also, $2100 isn't the comp/collision coverage alone, it's liability (at a non-discounted rate with a company that isn't my current insurer) plus presumably ~300-500/year for the optional coverage. If I can get my current insurer to write comp/collision on this bike, I'll be happy, even though I'll be looking at ~$1200/yr probably.

The whole point of insurance though is to spread the risk -- just because fires are unlikely, and I've never had one yet, doesn't mean the odds are any different from yesterday, tomorrow, or 5 years from now, all equally likely. Then again you could theoretically amortize the cost over the *frequency* of fires and accidents, and self-insure in a way, but that only works when you have 10+k sitting in the bank to pay yourself out a claim at any point.
 
In the bigger picture of course you're right (which is why insurance is a viable industry in the first place) but at this point in my life my bikes have become the most significant part of my net worth by a large margin, and the CB750 is well over half that value all on its own. Minor damage that wouldn't mean much to the $2000 value of my KLR might mean this $10,000 bike becomes worth $2000 itself because it's no longer a pristine resto.

Also, $2100 isn't the comp/collision coverage alone, it's liability (at a non-discounted rate with a company that isn't my current insurer) plus presumably ~300-500/year for the optional coverage. If I can get my current insurer to write comp/collision on this bike, I'll be happy, even though I'll be looking at ~$1200/yr probably.

The whole point of insurance though is to spread the risk -- just because fires are unlikely, and I've never had one yet, doesn't mean the odds are any different from yesterday, tomorrow, or 5 years from now, all equally likely. Then again you could theoretically amortize the cost over the *frequency* of fires and accidents, and self-insure in a way, but that only works when you have 10+k sitting in the bank to pay yourself out a claim at any point.

Following that train of thought, what could you realistically sell the CB750 for? Getting appraisal value when selling most vehicles is very difficult. If the realistic selling price of the honda is $6000 (for example), start thinking about it in terms of that price. Yes, you have a lot more money and tons of time and love in it, but realistically, you could buy another one that someone else restored for $6000.

No bike will ever match the one you did yourself if it gets destroyed. Even in the insurance company gives you $10,000, you still won't be able to get a bike you feel the same about.

If the bike is only worth $6,000 (and may take a while to sell even at that price) is insurance for $1000+ a year still worth it?
 
Following that train of thought, what could you realistically sell the CB750 for? Getting appraisal value when selling most vehicles is very difficult. If the realistic selling price of the honda is $6000 (for example), start thinking about it in terms of that price. Yes, you have a lot more money and tons of time and love in it, but realistically, you could buy another one that someone else restored for $6000.

No bike will ever match the one you did yourself if it gets destroyed. Even in the insurance company gives you $10,000, you still won't be able to get a bike you feel the same about.

If the bike is only worth $6,000 (and may take a while to sell even at that price) is insurance for $1000+ a year still worth it?

I actually expected it to be around that -- I figured about half what I put into it. But the appraiser managed to find a similar, less pristine example, for $9,000 on Kijiji.

Now, it'd be very difficult to sell at the appraised value, if only because people that like restored bikes do it for the same reason I do -- we love to do the work. That doesn't mean it's worth any less -- insurance is about REPLACEMENT, not what you could sell it for. People that put what I did into the bike tend not to sell, and those that DO are businesses and have to make money on the work, which means it'd cost EVEN MORE than I put into it to get an equivalent bike.

Now, they'll take into account depreciation and the like too, which is BS too (restored bikes don't really depreciate any more) but the base value, as it sits right now, is exactly what the appraiser said it is. If I insure it today and tomorrow my garage burns down, I'd be owed the appraised value because that's what it takes to replace the vehicle with 0 depreciation (which is how it sits currently, with 7km on the clock)

EDIT: Further to that value, you can see that tip-top shape CB750's do go for very high prices these days. This is not a 'runner' or a 'daily rider' shape machine.
 
Last edited:
I actually expected it to be around that -- I figured about half what I put into it. But the appraiser managed to find a similar, less pristine example, for $9,000 on Kijiji.

Now, it'd be very difficult to sell at the appraised value, if only because people that like restored bikes do it for the same reason I do -- we love to do the work. That doesn't mean it's worth any less -- insurance is about REPLACEMENT, not what you could sell it for. People that put what I did into the bike tend not to sell, and those that DO are businesses and have to make money on the work, which means it'd cost EVEN MORE than I put into it to get an equivalent bike.

Now, they'll take into account depreciation and the like too, which is BS too (restored bikes don't really depreciate any more) but the base value, as it sits right now, is exactly what the appraiser said it is. If I insure it today and tomorrow my garage burns down, I'd be owed the appraised value because that's what it takes to replace the vehicle with 0 depreciation (which is how it sits currently, with 7km on the clock)

That's all true but doesn't change my argument. Insurance will provide you the appraised value if your garage burns down. In reality, your bike is worth approximately half of that (the one hanging out at 9,000 isn't moving). In almost every scenario, you have already lost $6,000 (the only exception would be an insured writeoff) so my argument is you really have an asset worth ~6,000. That changes the insurance value proposition. If you could obtain coverage for $1000 a year and didn't have an incident, you would be neutral in 6 years, years past that you would be losing quickly vs self-insured (eg. 1000 a year into an account). Obviously having it insured and rideable has benefits for fun, but not so much on the financial side.

PS. The bike looks awesome, I'm not trying to discount the work you did.
 

Back
Top Bottom