As is the interstate.
|
|
|
Forks - 138kph in a 50 Zone
- Thread starter Malks
- Start date
Thanks. LMFAO.
Insurance hikes have nothing to do with speeding tickets.
It's the liability pay outs. They are out of control in Ontario.
Supersports are involved in more serious accidents than any other type of a motorcycle.
Last edited:
While I'm certain there are plenty of accidents to go around, most fatalities and severe bodily injuries occur on supersports. Which is the reason for the high insurance.
A H-D may cost $30,000 but that's peanuts compared to someone going on therapy for 10 years.
Just like cars, who do you think gets into serious accidents more often - a guy in the Impreza or the guy in the Outback. Which one is more expensive to insure you think?
A H-D may cost $30,000 but that's peanuts compared to someone going on therapy for 10 years.
Just like cars, who do you think gets into serious accidents more often - a guy in the Impreza or the guy in the Outback. Which one is more expensive to insure you think?
You are 180 degrees away from reality ....cruiser riders have a very low accident rate despite the idjits in the US riding in helmet optional states.
http://www.iii.org/issue-update/motorcycle-crashes
Last edited:
Yes you will. Move to Brampton.
Picture to help you out.
http://www.cheapmovingcompanies.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/moving-truck.jpg
There was a particularly memorable kid here last year (with an f4i) from Keswick. Admittedly I went back and checked his old posts to see if it was the same guy who got nabbed in this thread. It wasn't. Was surprised - he was definitely the type to do something stupid like that. Ride or die, doood!
Anyhow, yeah, cruiser/Harley guys are statistically far safer. We are out for enjoyment which need not necessarily require speed, tend to be older and more risk adverse, and (because of age) are often more experienced with the realities of the road. Even though many (not all, Timmies Angels aside) cover countless more kilometers vs the sportbike crowd, we remain startically safer...which is reflected in our rates. We pay under $1100/year for two metric cruisers.
We viewed through the filter of likelihood to undertake risky speed-related behavior, sure. But cruiser riders, while perhaps less likely to charge through the woods at 140kph, nonetheless:
- are riding machinery that is heavier, doesn't handle as well and doesn't brake as well as its sportier brethren; they are often laden with heavy panniers and heavy (let's face it...) significant others, which can further increase risk by affecting handling, stability and braking performance
- are less likely to wear ATGATT; open face brain buckets are hip & cool and all but, as we saw in the video of the Harley-wobble victim, they're more effective as a bald-spot sunscreen than protecting as a true FF helmet would; for which type do most sportbike riders usually opt?
- are, generally speaking, older & less fit and thus less physically tolerant of having an "off"; if we view insurance costs as primarily taking care of crash victims, the cruiser rider has got to be up there
- (I don't have stats on hand to prove this but I suspect that) a higher percentage of cruiser riders are "new" riders; insurance for young new riders on SSs is simply too high whereas older guys are living-a-dream-they-had-since-their-teens-but-had-to-hold-off-on-until-life-and-family-and-other-obligations-were-done can afford the heavy iron and the insurance as their first bike (or first bike in decades...)
- how many new cruiser riders, especially older ones, take motorcycle safety courses?
So I suppose they are "statistically" safer from certain perspectives (e.g. speed and on-road behavior, choice of venue -- open road vs city streets) but they are riskier in other ways (e.g. lack of gear usage, fitness levels, training, sloppy machinery in terms of handling, braking etc.)
It's kind of funny in a way: certain SS rider's ill-advised behaviors are seemingly more likely to put them in the ground outright whereas Harley probably guys end up in hospital with all sorts of non-fatal but still-nasty injuries. You'd think that the dead guys are "cheaper" for the insurance companies than long-term care for the newbie greybeard.
(The potential irony of that last sentence is not lost on me re what I said about fitness. My thinking there was countless YT vids of ATGATT guys, say, low-siding their sportbikes and sliding along the pavement, only to pop up and run to their machines whereas this happening to a Harley guy is likely to be a Med-Evac-flight event...)
The guy observed at the forks last weekend, who was unable to get his full-dresser H-D off its sidestand and upright without help, and who had great difficulty maneuvering in the parking lot after that (quite obviously a new rider, even though he wasn't "young"), probably isn't in PrivatePilot's low-risk category.
The "... nearly four times higher than those of drivers of other types of motorcycles..." is biased, because the large touring bikes and cruisers in the lowest-risk category are seldom new-rider bikes, and a good percentage of bikes that are meant for new riders are what IIHS would probably call a supersport. Any bike category that has a big percentage of new riders is going to have a bad safety record ...
"it's the rider, not the bike"
FYI in Ontario in 2014 the overall motorcycle fatality rate was 2.6 per 10,000 registered motorcycles, which is better than any of the individual categories listed by the IIHS for 2005. Certainly our shorter riding season is a factor in this - but also our helmet laws.
http://scripts.canadamotoguide.com/...d/read/id/229904/sbj/some-ontario-statistics/
The "... nearly four times higher than those of drivers of other types of motorcycles..." is biased, because the large touring bikes and cruisers in the lowest-risk category are seldom new-rider bikes, and a good percentage of bikes that are meant for new riders are what IIHS would probably call a supersport. Any bike category that has a big percentage of new riders is going to have a bad safety record ...
"it's the rider, not the bike"
FYI in Ontario in 2014 the overall motorcycle fatality rate was 2.6 per 10,000 registered motorcycles, which is better than any of the individual categories listed by the IIHS for 2005. Certainly our shorter riding season is a factor in this - but also our helmet laws.
http://scripts.canadamotoguide.com/...d/read/id/229904/sbj/some-ontario-statistics/
Well according to this article, the majority of fatalities on OPP patrolled roads are riders in the 45-65 age group.
http://london.ctvnews.ca/motorcyclists-urged-to-ride-defensively-as-deaths-climb-opp-1.2517067
blackcamaro
Well-known member
I feel much safer on an SS or even my supermoto then I do on my Road King or any of the other cruisers I've taken short rides on. I actually feel a little vulnerable on the Harley.
I think the point is that we don't have the demographic breakdown, which surely has a major influence on this. A cruiser or a touring bike is not an inherently safer design than a sport bike is. The sport bikes nowadays are the ones with the premium tires and well-sorted suspension and, nowadays, the most advanced electronic rider aids, and they tend to be lighter. It wouldn't surprise me if "the most dangerous" bikes going simply by deaths per 10,000 registered is something in the Ninja 300 range, or a Suzuki SV650 or something of that sort - simply because they're more commonly bought by beginner riders, and the large touring bikes are seldom bought by beginner riders.
If someone in a car runs a red light while you approach, they're not checking to make sure it's a sport bike and not a cruiser that they're about to cut off.
At the same time, if that's me seeing the car about to violate my space, I'd like to be able to change directions and/or stop and/or accelerate as quickly as possible in order to avoid the conflict if at all possible. An experienced rider will do this. A noob might not realize that they have to.
P.S. #1. That CBF1000 of yours is pretty much a CBR1000 with different looking bodywork and the footpegs and bars in slightly different spots.
P.S. #2. A Yamaha FJR1300 is like an R1 expanded with luggage and with the footpegs and bars in slightly different spots.
P.S. #3. A Kawasaki Concours 1400 is a shaft drive Ninja ZX14 with luggage and with the footpegs and bars in slightly different spots.
P.S. #4. Kawasaki Ninja 650, Versus 650, and ER6N are basically the same bike.
The same thing happens in the car world. Two door Civics have worse real world crash experience than 4 door models even though it's the same thing underneath, because of who buys them. GTI vs Jetta same thing. The Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio are particularly bad death traps if you go by the "deaths per X distance / deaths per X units". It's not that these cars are particularly badly engineered, it's just that they're frequently the first car people buy after they just got their license, and practically no one buys one as a family car. Go back a few years; the Chevrolet Astro was a disaster in terms of crash testing, but real world experience wasn't that bad, because they're not bought by risky demographics. If you have one, DON'T get in an offset frontal crash with it.
If someone in a car runs a red light while you approach, they're not checking to make sure it's a sport bike and not a cruiser that they're about to cut off.
At the same time, if that's me seeing the car about to violate my space, I'd like to be able to change directions and/or stop and/or accelerate as quickly as possible in order to avoid the conflict if at all possible. An experienced rider will do this. A noob might not realize that they have to.
P.S. #1. That CBF1000 of yours is pretty much a CBR1000 with different looking bodywork and the footpegs and bars in slightly different spots.
P.S. #2. A Yamaha FJR1300 is like an R1 expanded with luggage and with the footpegs and bars in slightly different spots.
P.S. #3. A Kawasaki Concours 1400 is a shaft drive Ninja ZX14 with luggage and with the footpegs and bars in slightly different spots.
P.S. #4. Kawasaki Ninja 650, Versus 650, and ER6N are basically the same bike.
The same thing happens in the car world. Two door Civics have worse real world crash experience than 4 door models even though it's the same thing underneath, because of who buys them. GTI vs Jetta same thing. The Hyundai Accent and Kia Rio are particularly bad death traps if you go by the "deaths per X distance / deaths per X units". It's not that these cars are particularly badly engineered, it's just that they're frequently the first car people buy after they just got their license, and practically no one buys one as a family car. Go back a few years; the Chevrolet Astro was a disaster in terms of crash testing, but real world experience wasn't that bad, because they're not bought by risky demographics. If you have one, DON'T get in an offset frontal crash with it.
That probably makes sense since the OPP tend to patrol highways and rural roads where cruisers spend a lot of their time, whereas urban and suburban settings are more used by sport bike riders.
And ironically fatalities are cheaper payouts.
So it's the young bucks that crash, live and require extensive hospital stays.
In any event, definitely the old fellas with no experience, riding heavy tanks are a liability. But those folks still ride them like they are driving an old pick up truck at 10 under the posted speed limit.
It's the fellas that are young and full of testosterone and don't know which way to the track that make the rates what they are.
Face it, a 600 or litre bike on the 401 in traffic is a bore. So when things open up, they crack the throttle and get into third gear and into trouble fast.
They might have reflexes, youth on their side but, the machinery gets them into more trouble faster than those old farts fagging around on their bloated couches.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited:
|
|
|
|
|