Talk to Zoodles about Trucks... Mid size and 1/2 Ton... | GTAMotorcycle.com

Talk to Zoodles about Trucks... Mid size and 1/2 Ton...

Zoodles95

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So... I am looking at finally getting a Hybrid trailer and I will need something to tow it with. Hybrid trailers look like a typical camping trailer but the beds slide out like a pop up trailer:

http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=156&ModelID=964#Main


A minivan like a Grand Caravan could tow a 17' Hybrid and that would be at the max tow rating of the van. Lots of the smaller SUVs have similar tow ratings (3500 lbs) and I would have to look at something like a GMC Acadia for a 5000 lb tow rating.

A pick up would be easier to throw our kayaks into and would have the advantage of being able to use the bed for when we get soil and mulch etc.

Something like a mid size Chevy Colorado would be ideal and they seem to tow around 7000 lbs with the V6 which would easily handle my needs.

The weird thing though is that the mid sized pickups seem to hold their value better than the 1/2 ton trucks.

So... I am spitballing the idea of snagging a Chevy Silverado 1500 or a Ram 1500. The Rams seem to depreciate more than the GM twins and that might be because Chrysler/FIAT keeps throwing cash on the hood on the new ones on their lots which in turn hurts resale value.

I am just wondering what to keep an eye out for? I am buying used and could go for a V6 or V8 model. Older Rams seem to get rear quarter rust; not sure if that is still an issue.

Thoughts?
 
Used but how old? How fancy? Cab style?

This is an extremely competitive market segment which means the newer models have big improvements and they are all pretty close. The F150 is getting a restyle shortly. The Ram is getting a full redesign shortly; the current model has been around for a while which also helps explain the incentives to buy new.
 
Consideration: it's not just the trailer weight and/or tongue-weight-balance. That type of trailer is a big square box that you have to pull through the air, i.e. lots of drag - why people get bigger engines.
 
I pulled a similar trailer with my 2013 F150 non turbo V6 , it pulled just fine, but I never took it through the mountains. Had I gone to Penn state or west and pulled long hills it may have been different.
When I pulled a bit heavier trailer I was using a Ram 1500, V8 (not hemi) , pulled just fine.

Consider a weight distributing hitch, no matter which truck you buy, its another $600 bucks or so but totally changes the way the trailer pulls, rides and stops. Best trailering invention ever.

Before you buy a hybrid trailer talk to some owners that had/have them for a few seasons. They are a heavy/heavier than a conventional, yes you get tip outs but then your sleeping in a tent (really expensive tent) and you have to dry out the canvas after rain days. AC/heat is less efficient and it adds to your set up camp times. Just things to consider, we looked at a lot of newer trailers in the last three years.
 
There's lots to the equation vs just "max tow rating". Wheelbase and gearing are amongst the two most important ones people don't pay attention to but can be critically important. A short minitruck like a Colorado with high gearing is NOT going to make a pleasant towing experience. Braking is also another important factor - yes, trailer brakes are designed to offload the weight of the trailer from the trucks braking system, but there's still a lot to be said for a truck with a good braking system vs the often marginal ones (for the weight of the truck itself) sometimes found on the <1/2 ton segment.

A full sized pickup with a full 8 foot box, appropriately short(ish) gearing, and an appropriate (just just marginal) amount of power will make for a FAR more enjoyable towing experience, and as someone who spent 8 years crisscrossing North America with my family and our our 30' travel trailer, there's a lot to be said for being relaxed and actually enjoying the ride vs being tensed up in a white knuckle situation and arriving at your destination exhausted because of it.

As for your choice of trailer, are you aware of some of the downsides of a hybrid trailer vs a more traditional hard sided trailer? I would never personally own a hybrid for the following reasons:

- Some designs make the trailer difficult to use when the hybrid part is folded in, so a quick roadside/parking lot stop to fix lunch somewhere becomes very difficult, sometimes impossible without releasing the hybrid portion of the trailer, which can be a PITA. Take note at what's blocked when it's folded in - sinks, bathrooms, kitchen tables, etc are often rendered unusable depending on the location of the hybrid portion of the trailer, and it's configuration.

- It's like sleeping in a tent so you WILL hear everything that goes on around you. The first time you setup in a site with neighbors that decide to sit out around their campfire until 3AM (or worse yet, crazy partiers) while you're trying to get to sleep, you'll understand.

- They're hard to heat as the furnace will work double time to keep the trailer comfortable as the heat just leaves through the hybrid fabric. They are also hard to cool in hot weather as the sun just heats up the fabric area like crazy.

- If you get stuck packing up in the rain you MUST fold out the hybrid portion for a day or so in the sun to let it dry out after you get home or you'll end up with mold and mildew all over it in short order.

- Depending on where you're traveling you may experience problems - a lot of campgrounds out west for example do not allow hybrid/tent style trailers are bears simply rip through them like a hot knife in butter. This can also be a risk if you go north...or anywhere, for that matter. I always liked having 4 hard walls around me for not only situations like animals, but people as well - we travelled a lot and spent overnights "Walmart Camping" during long stretches where we just needed a place to crash for 8 hours of sleep, and the last thing I wanted was to be in a "tent" in that situation. ;)

And lastly, brake controllers - do NOT buy a cheap timer based controller, but a quality proportional based electric brake controller. Google the difference, they are not the same, and I've alway felt that timer based brake controllers are dangerous. Many new pickups have integrated brake controllers which are excellent, but you will usually need to be in the 1/2 ton segment at minimum with the trailer package in order to get it as an option however.
 
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And lastly, brake controllers - do NOT buy a cheap timer based controller, but a quality proportional based electric brake controller. Google the difference, they are not the same, and I've alway felt that timer based brake controllers are dangerous. Many new pickups have integrated brake controllers which are excellent, but you will usually need to be in the 1/2 ton segment at minimum with the trailer package in order to get it as an option however.

I didn't even know they sold non-proportional controllers. What a terrible idea that is.
 
Do you have cash to play with or looking to finance?

If cash, then every 2 weeks North Toronto Auction is open to the public. Once in a while they get flooded with trucks and you'll see some stupid decent deals. And they have an MTO rep issuing temp tags on site, so you can drive your purchase out same day. Last year I won an 06 F150 4x4 supercrew with a $2500 bid. Which was about half of the cheapest comp on autotrader or kijiji.
 
I didn't even know they sold non-proportional controllers. What a terrible idea that is.

Timer based electric brake controllers are indeed an absolute joke – they treat an emergency panic stop on the 401 at 120KPH the same as how they would treat a gradual stop at a neighborhood intersection, and since most people get tired of the herky-jerky stops they provide in normal braking, they crank the power down so low that in an emergency situation the trailer basically plows them straight into whatever might be in the way, providing too little braking too late.
 
With regards to paying by cash or financing, whatever you do under NO (!!) circumstances buy a brand new trailer – RVs are an absolute depreciation pit of epic proportions and you will be upside down by a very significant percentage the second you roll it off the lot.

If you decide in a year or so that camping really wasn't for you after all you will join the tens of thousands of others trying to recoup their investment only to discover that the used market for RV's will kick you in the financial nuts.

My father-in-law bought a four-year-old fifth wheel a number of years ago and the guy he bought it from was so desperate to sell it (after trying unsuccessfully for over a year) that he ended up selling it for less than what he owed just to finally get rid of it – he was still going to be making payments for several years on the difference. Don't be that guy - there is a ton of extremely gently used (some like new) RVs out there which others have already ate the depreciation on.
 
Just get an Audi wagon or a Subaru wagon. Fold the seats down and you can inflate a mattress. Put you luggage in a top box. No setup, hard sides, you can actually enjoy the drive, drive in the snow and stealth camp.

There's also the amg e63 wagon but I don't know if the seats fold flat to sleep in it.

Sent from my DROID Turbo using Tapatalk
 
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Timer based electric brake controllers are indeed an absolute joke – they treat an emergency panic stop on the 401 at 120KPH the same as how they would treat a gradual stop at a neighborhood intersection, and since most people get tired of the herky-jerky stops they provide in normal braking, they crank the power down so low that in an emergency situation the trailer basically plows them straight into whatever might be in the way, providing too little braking too late.

I'd never heard of the difference before either and that certainly explains the odd braking behavior I experience when towing.

Time to get a new trailer brake controller.
 
I am just wondering what to keep an eye out for? I am buying used and could go for a V6 or V8 model. Older Rams seem to get rear quarter rust; not sure if that is still an issue.

If you look at a GM vs a Ram, a Ram comes with inner fender liners in the rear wheel wells, while a GM does not and is open to the underside of the bed. From 2013 on, there is a small hole drilled into the top of the liner to stop water from accumulating, while in the older versions of the Ram there was not. Will it fix the issue? Probably, only time will tell, I just keep my truck (2014 Ram) clean and shouldn't have that issue. I will say you don't see that many of the 4.5 gens rusting as you did with the early 4's. They all have the same box, so it's not like they changes to much.

Ram does give a lot off the price of new trucks. My dad bought a 2017 Silverado for $45k, which is a "work truck," (rubber floor, cloth interior, cheapest radio, very few options but heavy suspension for towing) while for the same money he could have gotten a fully loaded Ram. The dealer gave him a stupid amount of money for his 2012 with the 5.3L oil pressure issues, so he was kind of stuck. Before that he has a 09 Sierra with the 4.8L and snapped the crank shaft in two just before the #8 cylinder at about 75ooo km. Never threw a CEL though.
 
So... I am looking at finally getting a Hybrid trailer and I will need something to tow it with. Hybrid trailers look like a typical camping trailer but the beds slide out like a pop up trailer:

http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=156&ModelID=964#Main


A minivan like a Grand Caravan could tow a 17' Hybrid and that would be at the max tow rating of the van. Lots of the smaller SUVs have similar tow ratings (3500 lbs) and I would have to look at something like a GMC Acadia for a 5000 lb tow rating.

A pick up would be easier to throw our kayaks into and would have the advantage of being able to use the bed for when we get soil and mulch etc.

Something like a mid size Chevy Colorado would be ideal and they seem to tow around 7000 lbs with the V6 which would easily handle my needs.

The weird thing though is that the mid sized pickups seem to hold their value better than the 1/2 ton trucks.

So... I am spitballing the idea of snagging a Chevy Silverado 1500 or a Ram 1500. The Rams seem to depreciate more than the GM twins and that might be because Chrysler/FIAT keeps throwing cash on the hood on the new ones on their lots which in turn hurts resale value.

I am just wondering what to keep an eye out for? I am buying used and could go for a V6 or V8 model. Older Rams seem to get rear quarter rust; not sure if that is still an issue.

Thoughts?
I have a 2015 Sierra double cab with the 4.3 v6 no issue towing a similar Trailer to yours. I have the trailer package and a locking diff you can still get a new one under 30g i just priced one last week. I also have a direct link brake controller that works with the ecu in the truck to adjust trailer braking. Resale values seems good as i paid 25g for the truck and was offered 22 as a trade in value. Dont get a hybrid get a standard enclosed trailer, my parents have a 20 foot for sale due to health reasons if you are interested i can even let you try towing it with my truck if you want to see how it feels.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
Consideration: it's not just the trailer weight and/or tongue-weight-balance. That type of trailer is a big square box that you have to pull through the air, i.e. lots of drag - why people get bigger engines.

That is why I went for a smaller trailer so my bigger motor can work even less. A-frame trailer have the same setups and are easy to tow, big plus is being able to see over the trailer while driving.


20161105_101313.jpg
 
If you look at a GM vs a Ram, a Ram comes with inner fender liners in the rear wheel wells, while a GM does not and is open to the underside of the bed. From 2013 on, there is a small hole drilled into the top of the liner to stop water from accumulating, while in the older versions of the Ram there was not. Will it fix the issue? Probably, only time will tell, I just keep my truck (2014 Ram) clean and shouldn't have that issue. I will say you don't see that many of the 4.5 gens rusting as you did with the early 4's. They all have the same box, so it's not like they changes to much.

Ram does give a lot off the price of new trucks. My dad bought a 2017 Silverado for $45k, which is a "work truck," (rubber floor, cloth interior, cheapest radio, very few options but heavy suspension for towing) while for the same money he could have gotten a fully loaded Ram. The dealer gave him a stupid amount of money for his 2012 with the 5.3L oil pressure issues, so he was kind of stuck. Before that he has a 09 Sierra with the 4.8L and snapped the crank shaft in two just before the #8 cylinder at about 75ooo km. Never threw a CEL though.
Just put money down on a '17 sierra.
I got wayyyy more for my money with gm than dodge could have offered. I think dodges are ugly as sin, but I did my comparisons, and gmc is built much nicer. 0 down, 0% for 72 months was a nice touch. Ram's 0% ends after 48 months and then you're up to 3.9%
Got 12k~ off, a base w/ leather seats, 7" display with Bluetooth &trailering packag w/ upgraded coolers, gear ratio, and 4/7 pin harness.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
I'd never heard of the difference before either and that certainly explains the odd braking behavior I experience when towing.

Time to get a new trailer brake controller.

What model is it? I can tell you if it's a good one or not.

Tekonsha makes some great controllers. I have used the Primus, Voyager, and now own a P3 (Expensive, but awesome) and all are proportional and good choices. The P3 is the closest one can get to an integrated brake controller in the non integrated market, and it's programmability is awesome for people who pull multiple trailers and need different braking profiles for each.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of junk on the market.

If you look at a GM vs a Ram, a Ram comes with inner fender liners in the rear wheel wells, while a GM does not and is open to the underside of the bed. From 2013 on, there is a small hole drilled into the top of the liner to stop water from accumulating, while in the older versions of the Ram there was not. Will it fix the issue? Probably,

Ram pickups seem to start to rust out in the rear fender wells within 24 months, almost like clockwork. I don't know why after all these years they can't seem to fix that, but it's a MAJOR issue, and would be a show stopper for me. Even my old 1997 Chevy dually (which is now gone) was still mostly intact in the fender wells even at nearly 20 years or age, but 5 year old Dodges had holes big enough to put a pen through.

Ram also ranks very low in reliability as well, the JD Power numbers are not favourable at all.

That is why I went for a smaller trailer so my bigger motor can work even less. A-frame trailer have the same setups and are easy to tow, big plus is being able to see over the trailer while driving.

Tent trailers have their advantages (mainly, yes, they tow a lot easier) but they suffer from all (and more) of the disadvantages I listed above..and a quick roadside lunch prep/cook or bathroom break if you're travelling long distances is virtually impossible. Ultimately it depends on what type of camping you're doing and how far you're going - weekend warriors do OK with tent trailers, but the hard core crowd, different story.

For example, here was our setup in 2008 when we were headed for Vancouver as part of a 40-ish day trip to the west coast and back.

trailerrockies.jpg
.

A tent trailer would be totally and completely impractical for a trip like that, but we did these sorts of long trips at least once every season, as well as tons of 2-5 day trips in between during the camping season. We needed a traditional hard sided trailer that was usable even with the slide in. That photo was taken during an emergency roadside bathroom break, for example. ;)

We also did winter camping. Again, simply not practical with anything with soft sides anywhere, tent trailer or hybrid.

trailerwinter.jpg
 
Thanks for all the replies so far; really appreciated.

Some more thoughts to clarify my wife and my choices. Why a "Hybrid"?

For the most part we do weekend getaways and with my wife's MS our tent days are over. For us this is a huge step up versus "car camping". We talked about going the pop up route but the Hybrid gives us a full bathroom and larger black and grey water tanks versus pop up. If it were just me I would snag something like a larger A-Liner which would totally suit our needs. Also, my Autistic brother-in-law is often with us and the extra slide out bed will give him the room he needs.

This is also our entry into the RV world/lifestyle and we thought we would move up a touch to a Hybrid versus a pop-up. For a typical hard sided trailer with the space needed for my Brother In Law then that might make fitting the trailer into our driveway during the summer months a tough fit. So... The Hybrid has some of the advantages and disadvantages of both the pop up and typical hard sided trailer. In a couple of years we could always upgrade to a hard sided trailer if that was where we want to migrate to.

We will definately buy used; I buy used whenever I can. :) There are lots of Hybrid trailers that would fit the bill for $8000-$16000.

Single or dual axle? 19' and up boxes seem to be dual axle which should help keep the trailer better planted and that is an extra set of brakes and 3 tires on the road instead of 1 if a trailer tire blows a flat. I drove tractor trailer for several years but I have never pulled a trailer on a hitch.

For the truck you have convinced me to go V8. On the used market they seem to not fetch much (if any) premium over the V6 and the extra torque and power would help. I would prefer Crew Cab (larger rear doors) over Quad Cab and the smaller bed. For the right price or option group I could swing either way.

Oddly enough I love the look of the Rams. I too have noticed the rear quarter rust and I figure that some of the savings buying Ram over GM (and it is about a $3000 difference based on my searching and a higher trim level to boot) could go to having some body work done later. I typically buy vehicles with 80000 - 120000 km and put another 100000-140000 onto them. I have $7000 saved up and could use my line of credit which has the same interest rate as most used car loans. Or I could have the better part of $15000 saved next year. We have enough money saved for a used trailer already. It is just if my wife is willing to make the jump now or wait until next spring.

Any info on average maintenance costs per year on a trailer, insurance, and licencing?
 
+1 one the proportional break controller.

if I were buying a truck today it would probably be the GM 1500. I bought an F150 last year and it's a good truck, however I think by friends Sierra with the V8 tows much better than the Ecoboost. I have driven both with my enclosed trailer. They should also remove the "Eco" from the engine name.

My biggest gripe is the body though. If you stare hard at those aluminum panels the instantly dent or crease
 
it sounds like you have a good grasp on your choice of trailer. There is advantages of a hybrid style trailer (more space, less length) but just keep things in mind when looking at them, especially how much of the trailer you can (or cannot) access when the trailer is all folded up. As for what you buy, you're almost better to buy a cheaper (potentially older) trailer to begin with (that has depreciated more) and use it for a year and see if camping is indeed your thing. If so, then next spring you can sell it again (market is always hottest in the spring of course, same as motorcycles) and buy something newer/better if you want...this reduces the potential depreceation losses as I mentioned in my last post should you decide it's not your thing after the first season.

Tandem vs single axle? Tandem, no question. More stable, less load on each tire, and typically 2 more brakes. Check for drums on the second axle though, some manufacturers cheap out and only put brakes on 1 axle even on a tandem trailer. On that topic, be sure to check the condition of the tires on whatever you buy - RV tires almost always age-out before wearing-out, and they are also famous for blowing out at the most inconvenient times. If there's any cracks or issues negotiate the price of a new set of tires into the buying price if you can. And again on the topic of tires, if you can find non ST ("Special Trailer") tires that will fit on the rims, opt for LT ("Light truck") tires instead of adequate weight carrying capacity - they are far better quality vs the typically garbage Chinese trailer tires on just about every trailer on the road. Unfortunately a lot of smaller trailers use small tires now so LT's are not always an option (they only come so small), but regardless, even if you have to go with ST's again, keep the condition of the tires in mind...and check the tire pressure before EVERY outing - underinflation is the biggest cause for blowouts.

Your choice of truck sounds good - longer the wheelbase the better, especially for tag (vs gooseneck/fifth wheel) hitch trailers. Keep the gearing in mind - a lot of pickups are spec'd as grocery getters now despite their big burly appearance. Yes, taller gearing provides better MPG when you're not towing, but it can also very negatively effect towing performance.

Maintenance costs? Not much - if you're handy you can learn how to winterize the trailer yourself (It's not hard and I can walk you through that) you'll save yourself a few hundred at the end of the season getting a dealer to do it for you..and it's really only a 20-ish minute job once you know how - might take you an hour the first time.

Insurance? Not necesary - it's covered under your vehicles insurance when you hookup against liability. That said, you CAN insure it for collision/comprehensive if you want, which isn't a bad idea as it's very cheap to add coverage to an RV. I paid something like $20/month for full coverage on our 5th wheel.

Licensing is a one time thing - you buy the plate when you register the trailer at the MTO and that's it - no stickers or annual fees.
 

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