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Thread: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

  1. #21
    kiwi's Avatar
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppa View Post
    If your premise that certain bikes attract immature riders is to be believed, then logically the beginner bikes should have the highest rates, since they are the ones probably statistically more likely to be involved in crashes/accidents/deaths since they are ridden by new and inexperienced riders

    I would venture to say ninja 300 riders crash more than anyone, the GSX-S is fairly new and uncommon, i doubt they have much if any data on those, this is a classic case of guilt by association, simply because it shares the moniker with its popular and poorly reputed cousin GSX-R

    The problem with insurance companies is that 50% of their research is based on data, and probably 50% is based on guesswork/shot in the dark, how else can someone classify a VFR as a sportsbike?
    Totally agree with you. "GSX" and especially " Ninja" seem to be classed all into "Sport Bike". Is the Z1000 a Sports Bike here now? I don't know. I know of a Ninja 1000 rider who argued for his "Ninja" 1000 to be rated the same as a Z1000. He got lucky as the insurance company finally agreed. Years ago I had a GSX650F, luckily that was just a "sport tourer"
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  2. #22

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    To further support the argument, i was also told the ninja 650 is also considered by some as a sport bike lololol
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  3. #23
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    I'm not surprised remember the Kawasaki ZZR600 which was a renamed ZX6E exact same bike except for the decal. ZX6E was like double to insure


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  4. #24
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    what were the actual rates qouted on both those bikes? Might both be considered sport but I imagine the rate is still different on the GSX-S

  5. #25

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    I didnt ask for a quote as i didnt get to test ride and wasnt sure if i would even want it, but paul south(my broker) did confirm that its considered a sport bike, so therefore i would either not be able to get insured on it with, or i would get a high quote

  6. #26
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppa View Post
    I didnt ask for a quote as i didnt get to test ride and wasnt sure if i would even want it, but paul south(my broker) did confirm that its considered a sport bike, so therefore i would either not be able to get insured on it with, or i would get a high quote
    Basing a purchasing decision based on the opinion of a single insurance company/broker is unwise.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Trying to make sense of insurance companies ratings of motorcycles is like herding cats.

    There is a lack of knowledge. There is terminology that is incorrectly used and there are different companies that specialize in the market and within that market, some focus on different types of riders they want to insure and discourage others.

    Some companies like new riders as a gateway to new business for other products that are more profitable.

    In regards to a naked Suzuki 750. It's a lot of machine. It may not be a fully faired SS but, it's got plenty of engine to be a hooligan machine and being plenty of smiles.

    Why do some insurance companies class it differently? Anyone guess. That is why you should seek insurance through a brokerage that specializes in bike insurance. They know the market. They know the companies and can do the work for you.



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  8. #28
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppa View Post
    I didnt ask for a quote as i didnt get to test ride and wasnt sure if i would even want it, but paul south(my broker) did confirm that its considered a sport bike, so therefore i would either not be able to get insured on it with, or i would get a high quote
    Fair enough, I was curious though because I would expect the rates to still be lower on the naked then a GSXR even though both in the sport category. Would of given a rough idea on what the extra charge is on a SS.

  9. #29

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppa View Post
    I didnt ask for a quote as i didnt get to test ride and wasnt sure if i would even want it, but paul south(my broker) did confirm that its considered a sport bike, so therefore i would either not be able to get insured on it with, or i would get a high quote
    When you mean sport bike do you mean a supersport with the increased premium? Weird how I got a sport/naked rate on this bike from the same broker

  10. #30
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Sport≠SuperSport, AFAIK for insurance purposes.

    Ninja 250 = Sport
    Hayabusa = Super Sport.

    I think had you actually got some numbers bigpoppa your argument here might be stronger, as camaro mentions. Just because an insurance company classified it as "sport" doesn't mean it's going to cost 4 arms and 7 legs.
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  11. #31

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post
    Sport≠SuperSport, AFAIK for insurance purposes.

    Ninja 250 = Sport
    Hayabusa = Super Sport.

    I think had you actually got some numbers bigpoppa your argument here might be stronger, as camaro mentions. Just because an insurance company classified it as "sport" doesn't mean it's going to cost 4 arms and 7 legs.

    As someone who is interested in sport/sportier bikes, anytime a broker/agent has denied me coverage he has stated "sport bike" as a reason

  12. #32
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Don't blame the underwriters or the bikes, blame the riders. Isn't there a tool on this forum that leads group rides at reckless speeds through towns and backroads, who doesn't allow cruisers or smaller sports, and touts that even on a 600 you won't be able to keep up unless you're quote "spanking it"? And a handful here like him? not to mention the people who encourage it? Blame all of those people, because it's their fault.

    The insurance company is judging the bike based on the statistically proven stereotypes of the people who buy them. My small engined shadow can go fast enough to get impounded on a 400 series highway, but my insurance company sees it as less likely because a honda buyer that wants to do 150 would never buy a shadow, they'd get a cbr 1000rr. The insurance companies have also likely noticed that the people who can't insure those bikes anymore are now buying bikes without the rr or r or ss designation, but the rider hasn't changed just because the machine did. Even a rebel can get into just as much trouble as a gixxer with the wrong rider on it, and if those riders started buying rebels, then you'd see the insurance trend change again.

    So from now on, when you see an idiot boasting that they cruise through 80's, at speeds that a Ferrari probably couldn't hang with, don't encourage him. Tell him what a moron he is, what he's doing to the community as a whole, and move on.
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  13. #33

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppa View Post
    Just spoke to my broker, apparently the GSX-S750 is considered a sport bike, as i mentioned earlier in a different post, if it looks or sounds like a sport bike(even if it isnt) they will assume that it is(or they cant tell the difference between a GsxR and a gsx-S), and charge you accordingly, so buyer beware

    and as always shop for insurance before purchasing a bike
    Try Bill Crawford at Dalton Timmis. Based on the quote they gave me, I would say they don't consider it a sport bike.
    Last edited by Cat; 06-22-2017 at 11:39 AM.

  14. #34

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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by JTR View Post
    Don't blame the underwriters or the bikes, blame the riders. Isn't there a tool on this forum that leads group rides at reckless speeds through towns and backroads, who doesn't allow cruisers or smaller sports, and touts that even on a 600 you won't be able to keep up unless you're quote "spanking it"? And a handful here like him? not to mention the people who encourage it? Blame all of those people, because it's their fault.

    The insurance company is judging the bike based on the statistically proven stereotypes of the people who buy them. My small engined shadow can go fast enough to get impounded on a 400 series highway, but my insurance company sees it as less likely because a honda buyer that wants to do 150 would never buy a shadow, they'd get a cbr 1000rr. The insurance companies have also likely noticed that the people who can't insure those bikes anymore are now buying bikes without the rr or r or ss designation, but the rider hasn't changed just because the machine did. Even a rebel can get into just as much trouble as a gixxer with the wrong rider on it, and if those riders started buying rebels, then you'd see the insurance trend change again.

    So from now on, when you see an idiot boasting that they cruise through 80's, at speeds that a Ferrari probably couldn't hang with, don't encourage him. Tell him what a moron he is, what he's doing to the community as a whole, and move on.
    A couple of years back I was shopping for better rates on my 1500 Goldwing and I think it was SF that wouldn't even talk to me because of the cubes. They would have insured me on a SS because it had a smaller motor.

    Goldwing riders aren't particularly fast and the bike weighs about a half ton. The underwriting system is a farce.

  15. #35
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by nobbie48 View Post
    A couple of years back I was shopping for better rates on my 1500 Goldwing and I think it was SF that wouldn't even talk to me because of the cubes. They would have insured me on a SS because it had a smaller motor.

    Goldwing riders aren't particularly fast and the bike weighs about a half ton. The underwriting system is a farce.
    Those sorts of situations are almost exclusively the result of an insurance company who doesn't specialize in motorcycles but just does them on the side as part of much more lucrative automotive business, and really doesn't even understand what they're selling.

    One simply needs to call around until they find an insurance company that actually understands the motorcycle market to avoid silliness like that.
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  16. #36

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by nobbie48 View Post
    A couple of years back I was shopping for better rates on my 1500 Goldwing and I think it was SF that wouldn't even talk to me because of the cubes. They would have insured me on a SS because it had a smaller motor.

    Goldwing riders aren't particularly fast and the bike weighs about a half ton. The underwriting system is a farce.

    You just proved the entire premise of the thread

    Thanks

  17. #37

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post
    I have a sneaky suspicion based on the trends I've been noticing over the last year or so that this is slowly changing when it comes to the naked sector - removing a few pieces of plastic and de-tuning the engine by a few percentage points doesn't automatically make it a statistically safer motorcycle, and seeing as how the hooligans have caught onto the fact they can have their cake and eat it to via a naked bike, the insurance companies are probably beginning to notice the trends so far is accidents and claims.
    This seems true. Called my broker to put my FZ1 back on my policy. A year and a half ago it was almost the same as my V-Strom and KTM at about $1000/year. This year it's $1600, the other two are still about the same.
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  18. #38

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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Quote Originally Posted by hedo2002 View Post
    So OP, if a bike makes virtually the same HP and is in essence, the same bike except the letter designation, then it should get a much lower insurance rating? So if I buy a mustang, it is made by Ford, so I should should expect it to be rated by insurance, the same as a Focus??
    Actually, wouldn't the Mustang be actually cheaper to insure since it is statistically less likely to get involved in an accident solely based on the fact that there are more more Focus' on the road therefore Focus' are probably more likely to get involved in accidents? lol.

    Doesn't the S in GSX-S stand for "sport"?

  19. #39

    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Claims history is of course dependant on who buys the bike... So sure a versys 1000 may outperform a GSXS... But the buyer is a very different type of rider and the bikes rating will reflect that

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  20. #40
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    Re: Further Proof of lack of insurance companies discernability

    Segment is too small for many insurance companies or government to make much effort.
    There isn't even book values to look up at MTO when a bike is sold.

    It's a seller's market, so the buyers need to get off their butts and shop around.
    Otherwise, you might end up with a company that doesn't really want your business.
    Ignorance is curable, Apathy not so much, but I don't care, I'll try anyway.

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