Riceburner
Well-known member
lol....true enough. Some have mechanical aptitude, some mental aptitude....
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Electrician costs..
- Thread starter jc100
- Start date
slowbird
Well-known member
The refrigerator...and another socket plus some random lights. Microwave, kettle and toaster all on same circuit which means not all can be used at the same time. It's weird as the electrics were presumably done at the same time as the kitchen and the microwave shelf is built into the units. The nearest socket is this one that seems connected to bloody everything else.
I also have some outside GFI receptacles that are acting up. I have an outdoor IR heater which works at 400 watts but trips the breaker when on 1500 W max. I unplugged everything on that receptacle and everything that I thought was connected to that circuit, bought a cat 12 extension cable to handle 1875 W but the circuit breaker blows but it doesn't trip the GFI socket it's plugged into. That seems odd to me... I guess the GFI receptacle is toast too?
He is an Uni Prof...they don't do these types of things...just sayin
I find it hard to believe that there are guys that do not know how to use screw drivers...but they exist.
I just rewired lights and a horn via relays on my bike...that's as far as I go. Small stuff yes...but when it comes to code electrical work I know my limits.
Sounds like the same guy wired my house originally!!
Riceburner
Well-known member
wow. In my old place, I wired each outlet in my basement kitchen to separate breakers. 2 counter top outlets and fridge outlet took up 5 or 6 breakers. Lights were separate as well.
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what should have happened here too. There's more, had an electrician in years ago as we had some issues with the furnace tripping breakers....he found that "someone" had spliced in some light circuits to the furnace electrical supply. He disconnected that circuit and we lost a few lights, nothing major, but he said it's going to take a bit to sort this out. We didn't have the cash then to do all this but it's time to get it sorted now. I'm tired of running to the garage to flip the breakers back on.
Riceburner
Well-known member
might be easier/cheaper to run lines direct from lights/switches, etc. direct to the panel and forget about trying to patch/route old lines.
1500W is going to draw 13.6 amps @ 110V - assuming it's on a standard 15 amp breaker that's very close to the limit. If it's an older breaker and has tripped many times replacing it could solve the problem.
Also, the conditions that trip a GFI aren't the same as those that trip a (normal) circuit breaker. A normal circuit breaker will trip if the circuit pulls too many amps (e.g. if you run the toaster and the kettle at the same time). A GFI trips if there is too much leakage current to ground (e.g. if your non-waterproof toaster falls into the sink). You can pull too many amps and not have a short to ground, and you can have a short to ground without pulling too many amps! So it's quite possible that the breaker in the panel will trip and the GFI receptacle will still be OK.
Microwave, fridge, kettle, and toaster all on the same circuit is bad and would certainly be over current. The fridge doesn't draw much, but the other appliances are big loads. I think kitchen receptacles are each supposed to have their own breaker (because of this potential problem), could be wrong but that would be the smart way to do it regardless of code.
It sounds like you have a bloody mess on your hands. Wiring like that in an industrial panel is what we call a "rat's nest". Electrical inspection: open panel, "NOPE", close panel and walk away ...
How far away is your panel from the kitchen? How much finished drywall or insulated walls are in the way?
Microwave, fridge, kettle, and toaster all on the same circuit is bad and would certainly be over current. The fridge doesn't draw much, but the other appliances are big loads. I think kitchen receptacles are each supposed to have their own breaker (because of this potential problem), could be wrong but that would be the smart way to do it regardless of code.
It sounds like you have a bloody mess on your hands. Wiring like that in an industrial panel is what we call a "rat's nest". Electrical inspection: open panel, "NOPE", close panel and walk away ...
How far away is your panel from the kitchen? How much finished drywall or insulated walls are in the way?
Not that far from the kitchen, a couple of walls maybe. However....there's also more, we have a satellite sub panel that's still fuses not breakers. Those aren't breaking or failing but could be contributing to the mess. I have someone coming round on Friday. I'll update after that. I may have to break into several piggy banks, the more I think about it the more I see how damn messy it is.
You get a 3 part problem , depending on when the house was built, in the 50's a toaster , kettle and hand mixer was as good as it got, 70's you got the microwave, then in the 80's you got everything, pannini presses, slow cookers, processors and electric loads followed. The code is a moving traget that constantly gets revised, some areas have kitchen 'splits', two 15amp circuits feed one recepticle with the brass bridge taken out to seperate the circuits, other areas just do 20amp loads to kitchen recepticles. Small appliances are more efficient than ever, led bulbs and infra heaters.
That said , there are so many houses with Mickey Mouse fixes on circuits, folks take the route of least resistance.
I'd make sure my furnace was stand alone, and any fridge. You dont want the heat or groceries going out because of a load issue. There are simple loads calculations to find out why the porch heater kills the breaker, it can be as simple as too long a run on too small a wire.
There is no substitute for a real electrician, that said a lot of home stuff can be sorted pretty easy.
That said , there are so many houses with Mickey Mouse fixes on circuits, folks take the route of least resistance.
I'd make sure my furnace was stand alone, and any fridge. You dont want the heat or groceries going out because of a load issue. There are simple loads calculations to find out why the porch heater kills the breaker, it can be as simple as too long a run on too small a wire.
There is no substitute for a real electrician, that said a lot of home stuff can be sorted pretty easy.
dieselxx
Well-known member
That shouldn't be an issue at all provided there is space in the panel and easy access to the garage. The only concern is some electricians seem to think they can get 240v from a tandem breaker ( ie a regular sized breaker with 2 hot entry points) . The tandem only picks up one phase of power from a resi panel. So you turn on both 15amp breakers on the tandem but are really only getting 120v to the 240 outlet lol. I've seen this so many times .
The only time a tandem will give you 208-240 is on a 3phase commercial/industrial supply and you put the tandem between phases.
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Thanks, I'm making a list for the guy and these things all help. The gazebo heater is plugged into a circuit that I also want to run some low voltage lights off. It basically feeds the back yard. Pretty sure it's 15A but I don't know what gauge wire it has after the GFI socket. Splitting the kitchen circuits is definitely something that needs doing but they also need cleaning up because I'm pretty sure there's a socket upstairs (in a room that wasn't upgraded before) that trips when a kitchen breaker goes.
We bought the house from a guy that flips houses after doing them up a bit. Looks like some (lots) shortcuts were taken with the electrics for sure. We had to threaten him with legal action as the downstairs bathroom had a waste pipe heading into the wrong municipal line and the council helped us get it fixed on the guys dime.
The guy coming round is a master electrician with a good reputation. We will see what he suggests.
dieselxx
Well-known member
Good you have somebody coming jc100. I'm sure it's a pretty easy fix that won't break the bank. You may just need a couple new circuits. I didn't mean to get you worried, it should be fine.
Kitchen receptacles can be either split 15a circuits or 20amp non split as posted above.You also need gfi protection within 1meter of any wash Basin.
Older type homes become overloaded easily nowadays. I have the same problem at my work which is well over 100 years old lol. All these office people need a kettle, fridge, microwave, base heater and ac unit at their desks when there are dedicated kitchens everywhere for said offices. Then complain at me when their computers shut down because the breaker trips.Ridiculous and lazy lol.
Kitchen receptacles can be either split 15a circuits or 20amp non split as posted above.You also need gfi protection within 1meter of any wash Basin.
Older type homes become overloaded easily nowadays. I have the same problem at my work which is well over 100 years old lol. All these office people need a kettle, fridge, microwave, base heater and ac unit at their desks when there are dedicated kitchens everywhere for said offices. Then complain at me when their computers shut down because the breaker trips.Ridiculous and lazy lol.
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That's very sad. I have worked with some great electricians and some like you bring up here. It's frightening that they can keep their ticket without understanding basic concepts.
What?
Sorry WRONGO!
Didn't you say you were an electrician? cuz I don't think you truly understand AC. Go hot to hot in the panel, you better have at least 220v AC in a one phase residential setup.
If you install two circuit breakers on one hot side, you will have 110v, grab the full wave and you have 220v.
Aren't ALL residential panels set up ABABABAB now? by code? so you will always get 220v out of a tandem.
I think he was referring to this:
not this:
If any electrician tried to tell me the top one was 240V I would tell them to GTFO.
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dieselxx
Well-known member
Yes I know know. A tandem is different from a true double pole breaker. As seen above. You are only hitting 1 phase with the tandem therefore both 15amp circuits coming off that tandem have the same sine wave voltage function. You're only getting 120v between the 2 not 240v. And it's 120v hot to ground or hot to neutral in Canada, not 110v lol.
Tandems were invented for space saving to add a few circuits to smaller panels. You should use them for small 15 amp single phase circuits. Besides if you wanted 240 off of it the 2 little breakers you see need to be attached. Sadly I've seen people just put a small piece of copper in between to make it a double.
You may be also creating alot of unbalanced loads with mutiple tandems.
Thanks for the pics greyghost that's what I meant by tandem.
Tandems were invented for space saving to add a few circuits to smaller panels. You should use them for small 15 amp single phase circuits. Besides if you wanted 240 off of it the 2 little breakers you see need to be attached. Sadly I've seen people just put a small piece of copper in between to make it a double.
You may be also creating alot of unbalanced loads with mutiple tandems.
Thanks for the pics greyghost that's what I meant by tandem.
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sometimes having a professional look things over is much less expensive than sorting it yourself.
My grandfather put two 100w bulbs in an enclosed kitchen light fixture rated for two 60w max, the ground had not been connected so when the wires finally melted it powered up the metal frame of the light fixture without tripping the breaker. Had the wires not melted out the heat was close to starting the house on fire, the paperback insulation above was all charred. Old house, but it can be that simple.
My grandfather put two 100w bulbs in an enclosed kitchen light fixture rated for two 60w max, the ground had not been connected so when the wires finally melted it powered up the metal frame of the light fixture without tripping the breaker. Had the wires not melted out the heat was close to starting the house on fire, the paperback insulation above was all charred. Old house, but it can be that simple.
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