Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets



Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

  1. #1

    Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Forum Sponsor
    According to CBC, starting August 28, 2017, if you get a parking ticket in Toronto, there is no more court process. You will be heard by a screening officer at City Hall. If you don't like the decision, you can appeal to a hearing officer. After that, there's no more right of appeal.

    I suspect that both the screening and hearing officers are paid by the same body who mandate issuing of parking tickets, in the first place.

    I think there is at least one more thread on this topic, but I think that dealt with the region of Peel. For lack of better words, I find this to be brutal and unfair to people in general, to say the least.

    If anyone remember, I detailed my recent experience with a parking ticket, here. I took the ticket to court, the parking officer did not show up and I walked without having to pay any fine. If I would have been caught by this new system, there is no way I would have gotten away with not having to pay.

    Put differently, the way the system will be implemented come August 28, 2017, is that you will be deemed guilty and then have to provide an excuse why you did not do it. Charter rights? Who needs them?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Sort of comes close to denying a person due process of law. I would think it could be challenged under the constitution. You have a right to a fair trial with representation. If you're just going to face some bureaucrat working for the people who ticketed you, nothing's going to be fair there.

  3. #3
    TwistedKestrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Grimsby
    Posts
    4,657

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    On one hand, I very much understand the city's logistical problems with having to defend issued parking violations when they are treated the same as other vehicular offences. There is a lot of them, there will never be enough PEOs, and the costs are multiplied by people exploiting the weaknesses of the system.

    On the other hand, having a fair chance to defend yourself against unjustly issued violations is extremely important to me. There are unjustly issued violations, and Roadghost is right in that the system we apparently are going to get is a major conflict of interest. Not suggesting that the adjudicator is going to be nefariously stuffing parking fines in their pockets, but they are going to prioritize things like efficiency or performance metrics over justice.

    Also I suspect this may eventually open the city to a lawsuit from the first downtown business with a large fleet that gets annoyed enough with it.
    Briefly bikeless
    "Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things." -Douglas Adams

  4. #4
    GateKeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    2,483

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Meeting with a screening officer, is and has been the norm in Mississauga now for some time

    http://www.mississauga.ca/portal/cityhall/aps

    Screening and Hearing Officers

    A person who receives a penalty notice may request a review of the administrative penalty by a Screening Officer.

    Screening Officers are employed by the City and are appointed by City Council on the recommendation of the City Clerk and the City Solicitor. To ensure impartial decision making City Council members and their relatives and persons indebted to the City (beyond property taxes) are not eligible for a Screening Officer appointment. In addition Screening Officers are bound by the City’s Conflict of Interest Guidelines.

    If a person is not satisfied with the decision of the Screening Officer they may request a review of the decision by a Hearing Officer. The decision of the Hearing Officer is final.

    Hearing Officers are also appointed by City Council on the recommendation of the City Clerk and City Solicitor. Like the Screening Officer positions, City Council members and their relatives and persons indebted to the City are not eligible for appointment. In addition, employees of the City or not eligible for a Hearing Officer appointment. The Hearing Officers are also bound by the City's Conflict of Interest Guidelines, the Statutory Powers and Procedures Act and the general common law principles of procedural fairness and natural justice. Hearing Officers are independent third parties who impartially conduct hearings in the public interest.
    Last edited by GateKeeper; 05-04-2017 at 06:14 PM.
    1983 Suzuki GS750E - Blog - http://gs750e.blogspot.ca/
    1985 Yamaha FZ750 - Blog - http://yamaha-fz750.blogspot.ca/

  5. #5

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    [QUOTE=GateKeeper;2494443]Meeting with a screening officer, is and has been the norm in Mississauga now for some time
    QUOTE]

    Yup and it usually works for both parties.

    In Mississauga theu usually drop the ticket by half and you just agree to pay it.

    I've had a lot of tickets and i cant remember one that wasnt my fault.

    But yeah, i can see whay it would suck for someone who was wrongly ticketed,

  6. #6

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    When the city was merged by the City of Toronto Act one of the lesser known facts is that the City of Toronto became responsible for the court process for bylaw and Provincial Offences tickets issued in the new city.
    This is no doubt a cost cutting measure, but I don't see how it can last.
    You still have the right to a trial for a speeding ticket.
    Both tags and tickets are governed by the Provincial Offences Act.
    While I'm not an expert on this statute I don't see how you can have one procedure for one offence and a separate procedure for another.

  7. #7
    GateKeeper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    2,483

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    When the city was merged by the City of Toronto Act one of the lesser known facts is that the City of Toronto became responsible for the court process for bylaw and Provincial Offences tickets issued in the new city.
    This is no doubt a cost cutting measure, but I don't see how it can last.
    You still have the right to a trial for a speeding ticket.
    Both tags and tickets are governed by the Provincial Offences Act.
    While I'm not an expert on this statute I don't see how you can have one procedure for one offence and a separate procedure for another.
    Not sure this is correct, I thought the APS System was only for, parking tickets, bylaw enforcement type tickets and animal control type tickets, I did not think that any provincial type infractions fell into the APS catagory

    http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2...ile-101065.pdf
    1983 Suzuki GS750E - Blog - http://gs750e.blogspot.ca/
    1985 Yamaha FZ750 - Blog - http://yamaha-fz750.blogspot.ca/

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West Toronto, GL1500
    Posts
    5,091

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Quote Originally Posted by micelli.i View Post
    According to CBC, starting August 28, 2017, if you get a parking ticket in Toronto, there is no more court process. You will be heard by a screening officer at City Hall. If you don't like the decision, you can appeal to a hearing officer. After that, there's no more right of appeal.

    I suspect that both the screening and hearing officers are paid by the same body who mandate issuing of parking tickets, in the first place.

    I think there is at least one more thread on this topic, but I think that dealt with the region of Peel. For lack of better words, I find this to be brutal and unfair to people in general, to say the least.

    If anyone remember, I detailed my recent experience with a parking ticket, here. I took the ticket to court, the parking officer did not show up and I walked without having to pay any fine. If I would have been caught by this new system, there is no way I would have gotten away with not having to pay.

    Put differently, the way the system will be implemented come August 28, 2017, is that you will be deemed guilty and then have to provide an excuse why you did not do it. Charter rights? Who needs them?

    Thoughts?
    Our rights were not protected by challenging HTA 172, a far more expensive situation for the driver / owner.

    While most tickets are likely in the 30-40 dollar range how about the fire lane and handicap ones? More in the $300 range IIRC. I don't condone the misuse but there are cases where judgement is needed. That's why we have courts.

  9. #9
    Bantario's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    19

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    I wrote Peter Tabuns my MPP on this ****, I'm so sick of this ****** Wynne and her corrupt crew.

  10. #10

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    You are certainly barking on the wrong tree .... but I do agree with you, LOL.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Oshawa/Thornhill
    Posts
    2,767

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Incorrect. Moving violations issued by a Peace Officer, are Provincial Offences Act violations. Parking tags are By-Law violations. The "new" system is and has been, as posted, been in use for quite sometime in other jurisdictions. The charter provides for a speedy and fair trial for such item as Criminal, and Provincial violations. Not sure it extends to bylaw infractions as they are considered minor, and general do not provide for jail time as part of a sentence.

    I doubt, that a charter challenge would be successful, based upon the fact that you are still being afforded the opportunity for a hearing. The fact that the Hearing officer is a paid employee, of the government, is a moot point, (unless one could prove, that there was an identifiable prejudice and not just a "feeling" that a prejudice exists). JP's and judges for that matter are also paid employees of the government. The hearing officer, will not have any formal legal training, anymore, than does a JP, who hears traffic violations.

    As for the argument that unjustified parking tags are issued, (which I am sure there are a few), so too could one argue that there are POA violations unjustly issued.

    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    When the city was merged by the City of Toronto Act one of the lesser known facts is that the City of Toronto became responsible for the court process for bylaw and Provincial Offences tickets issued in the new city.
    This is no doubt a cost cutting measure, but I don't see how it can last.
    You still have the right to a trial for a speeding ticket.
    Both tags and tickets are governed by the Provincial Offences Act.
    While I'm not an expert on this statute I don't see how you can have one procedure for one offence and a separate procedure for another.
    Last edited by hedo2002; 05-10-2017 at 08:51 AM.

  12. #12
    JTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Hamilton
    Posts
    278

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bantario View Post
    I wrote Peter Tabuns my MPP on this ****, I'm so sick of this ****** Wynne and her corrupt crew.
    While I'm always up for some Libtard bashing, I hate to break it to you but bylaws are municipal.

    Now, if you want to write a letter to help fellow riders, tell your mpp how dangerous and frightening it is to sit at the back of a line of traffic at red light, and how much safer it would be if you could legally filter to the front. Even if they just made it for that specific circumstance, it would get cagers accustomed to bikes moving between lanes.

  13. #13
    Bantario's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    19

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Hate to break it to ya, but it starts with the sack of **** and rolls down hill...

    http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/bills/bil...en&BillID=4374

  14. #14
    JTR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Hamilton
    Posts
    278

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Or hey, if you really want to criticize Wynne, did you realize that she's committed a BILLION dollars of YOUR money to buy Hamilton a train that most of the city doesn't even want? How about that?

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    52

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    such crap. I once got a ticket in t.o. after walking to the meter (I was not that close to it) waited in line went to pay with visa my card did not work went back to my car for change and had a ticket already.
    Ride or drive anything but transit

  16. #16

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Parking Enforcement tickets are still covered under to POA. I routinely use the POA for my defence of parking tickets, especially section 18.1(2) and win every time.


    Quote Originally Posted by hedo2002 View Post
    Incorrect. Moving violations issued by a Peace Officer, are Provincial Offences Act violations. Parking tags are By-Law violations. The "new" system is and has been, as posted, been in use for quite sometime in other jurisdictions. The charter provides for a speedy and fair trial for such item as Criminal, and Provincial violations. Not sure it extends to bylaw infractions as they are considered minor, and general do not provide for jail time as part of a sentence.

    I doubt, that a charter challenge would be successful, based upon the fact that you are still being afforded the opportunity for a hearing. The fact that the Hearing officer is a paid employee, of the government, is a moot point, (unless one could prove, that there was an identifiable prejudice and not just a "feeling" that a prejudice exists). JP's and judges for that matter are also paid employees of the government. The hearing officer, will not have any formal legal training, anymore, than does a JP, who hears traffic violations.

    As for the argument that unjustified parking tags are issued, (which I am sure there are a few), so too could one argue that there are POA violations unjustly issued.

  17. #17

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    The Provincial Offences Act is a procedural law. It covers all charges laid for PROVINCIAL laws in the Province of Ontario.
    Violations of the HTA, Liquor Control Act, the Electrical Act, the Housing Act...all of them.
    It states among other things that you are entitled to a trial to fight the charge.
    A separate section deals with charges laid for bylaws (municipal laws).
    Unless this Section has been amended, I don't see how your right to a trial for a parking infraction can be cancelled.

  18. #18
    Pegassus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    788

    Re: Say goodbye to your day in court for parking tickets

    Quote Originally Posted by micelli.i View Post
    According to CBC, starting August 28, 2017, if you get a parking ticket in Toronto, there is no more court process. You will be heard by a screening officer at City Hall. If you don't like the decision, you can appeal to a hearing officer. After that, there's no more right of appeal.

    I suspect that both the screening and hearing officers are paid by the same body who mandate issuing of parking tickets, in the first place.

    I think there is at least one more thread on this topic, but I think that dealt with the region of Peel. For lack of better words, I find this to be brutal and unfair to people in general, to say the least.

    If anyone remember, I detailed my recent experience with a parking ticket, here. I took the ticket to court, the parking officer did not show up and I walked without having to pay any fine. If I would have been caught by this new system, there is no way I would have gotten away with not having to pay.

    Put differently, the way the system will be implemented come August 28, 2017, is that you will be deemed guilty and then have to provide an excuse why you did not do it. Charter rights? Who needs them?

    Thoughts?
    They are not saving any money by going with this system, they still have to pay that screener to hear your story.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •