No, we don't. Source: look at any country that has a noticeable amount of commuters using 2 wheels.
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No Motorcycles in Ontario HOV Lanes, but included in review
- Thread starter TorontoBoy
- Start date
No, we don't. Source: look at any country that has a noticeable amount of commuters using 2 wheels.
Motorcycles will in fact take up less space than a single occupant vehicle in every conceivable scenario.
However, this analysis isn't a good argument in favour of allowing MCs on HOVs for a few reasons;
1- The method the gov't chose to increase throughput is by increasing the number of occupants per vehicle, not reducing the road space each occupant requires as in my math (but that's daft, because nobody ever sat in traffic complaining that there aren't enough people in the cars around them!)
2- The decision on which vehicles are excluded from the HOV isn't based on a formula like my graph because that would make it impossible to enforce. Instead it's based on gross generalizations according to vehicle type and number of occupants, which enforcement officers can easily distinguish.
3- There are already exception for other single occupant vehicles, such as buses (which makes sense since they end up saving space overall when the round trip empty/full of passengers is considered), and 'green' cars (which makes sense because politicians love to coat themselves in green policy for when election time rolls around).
Having said all that, it still leaves plenty of scope for allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes.
Single occupant bikes use less road space than single occupant cars. They gov't doesn't want to hear that argument but they're wrong as the benefit is real. The other point is that motorcycles are pretty uncommon on the road so allowing them on HOVs wouldn't compromise the element of exclusivity that is essential to allowing them to flow faster than regular traffic. And finally, since exceptions can be made to the single occupant rule, an exception for motorcycles is justified on the basis of improving safety for riders. Of course, motorcycles are easily distinguishable from all other forms of traffic so enforcement of HOV restrictions wouldn't be compromised by allowing MCs.
It's not like we'd be inventing anything that isn't done in dozens of other jurisdictions around the world, BTW.
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油井緋色;2487371 said:
I'd rather look at our own country. With the current road conditions, vehicle operator abilities and education, road manners, etc. We have poor lane discipline etc.
Even those with Repsol Paint and skills a little less than Rossi, seem to have a difficult time and end up bailing. Twin discs, four pot rotors, race ready machines that can clip apexes seem to find the road a little more challenging? Won't even mention the luxury two wheel couches other riders enjoy on mass in this country. (Myself included)
Again, this isn't everyone. It's in general terms.
My source?
YouTube. Countless vids of motorcycles that could have avoided perl, didn't.
.....sure we can look to high population countries with small motorcycles grouped together in countless sums.
It just isn't the same environment or conditions as here in Canada. Wipe out in one of those countries? Sweep you off to the side of the road and life goes on. Here? Traffic is jammed for hours to clean up and investigate. Not to mention costly insurance expenses afterwards.
Environmentally it would probably be much greener to enforce the passing lane for passing only rule. Less idling cars = less pollution. Timing the lights on busy streets better would also help as would making sure bus stops aren't positioned to stop a massive line of traffic behind (more idling traffic).
Sorry dude, I've developed no patience for lack of critical thinking or validation of facts before forming opinions.
Riceburner
Well-known member
Not valid source. Almost no one posts vids of safe rides. It's like getting accident stats just by looking at the collision reporting center reports.
PLau
Well-known member
You lose all credibility on this topic the moment you mention using Youtube as a source.
It's like looking for "good drivers" in a crash compilation.
Anyways, there are roads with HOV in Ontario that allow Motorcycles... Can't see why other roads in different municipalities can't adopt the same rules..
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PLau
Well-known member
I'm just mad my rain gear didn't cover my left boot on the ride in today. Ended up with a pool of water sloshing around for over an hour.
Ride back will be interesting.
Either way, on my ride into work every day on Don Mills HOV lane, 90% of the drivers in the lane tend to not meet requirements (sole driver, or a pair) where 3 is required. Allowing motorcycles on HOV lanes on highways won't be the end of the world.
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Riceburner
Well-known member
I just hate everyone. No discrimination.
Riceburner
Well-known member
Why did TO allow MCs in most of the HOV lanes?
PLau
Well-known member
Could it possibly be the same reason they promoted free motorcycle parking downtown at some point, then planned to strike it down a couple years later?
Something to do with provincial vs federal parties probably and how the responsibilities lie on different parties to make the rules.
Someone once told me if you want to spend a lot of money to get something done inefficiently...get the government to do it. This is what happens when they keep putting rules on top of rules without revising or removing antiquated rules.
Riceburner
Well-known member
The parking one was cause the parking stub could get taken or blown off a bike and would cost them more to have bikers in court challenging a parking ticket all the time.
The government needs to solve two problems in the context of this conversation:
1) less pollution
2) better travel/commute times
Seems like we've come to the conclusion that motorcycles won't really help with pollution (though they help with oil consumption/fuel). That's fine. We're constantly improving in other areas to help with pollution. Allowing motorcycles to use the HOV lane will help move people to/form work quicker and encourage more motorcyclists to commute (less space parking, etc..). That, and the constantly needed improvements to public transit.
It's true that in general a motorbike takes up as much space as a car to operate, but I can guarantee you that if you replace all cars with motorbikes you can fit an arse-load more motorbikes on the road than cars. So - more motorbikes the better.
Lane splitting will likely never be made legal in the current climate of our (society's) overall ethos on driving/riding/training here in Canada. Filtering - MAYBE - could work. Have to look at it from an enforcement standpoint too. Nigh impossible to enforce with certain unwelcome risks associated.
1) less pollution
2) better travel/commute times
Seems like we've come to the conclusion that motorcycles won't really help with pollution (though they help with oil consumption/fuel). That's fine. We're constantly improving in other areas to help with pollution. Allowing motorcycles to use the HOV lane will help move people to/form work quicker and encourage more motorcyclists to commute (less space parking, etc..). That, and the constantly needed improvements to public transit.
It's true that in general a motorbike takes up as much space as a car to operate, but I can guarantee you that if you replace all cars with motorbikes you can fit an arse-load more motorbikes on the road than cars. So - more motorbikes the better.
Lane splitting will likely never be made legal in the current climate of our (society's) overall ethos on driving/riding/training here in Canada. Filtering - MAYBE - could work. Have to look at it from an enforcement standpoint too. Nigh impossible to enforce with certain unwelcome risks associated.
Riceburner
Well-known member
When we had the HOV lane use down the DVP, it sure made a MC trip faster.
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