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Guess either of you haven't read much of your bibles

Deuteronomy 17:1-7

1 Do not sacrifice to the LORD your God an ox or a sheep that has any defect or flaw in it, for that would be detestable to him. 2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. 6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.

There are many more passages like this, but you would know this if you read your bible.
 
In just 2 years we've had so many terrorist attacks. What are the coincidence that 99.99% it is of a particular religion? Or a particular view?

We don't hear about a radical Buddhist bombing people or stabbing them randomly. We don't hear of radical Hindus or radical Christians lobing people's head off.

Oh here's another point to ponder upon. In many countries where they're not a majority, they do not get along with others. China, Russia, London, France, Belgium, you name it. Tell me why!
 
CruisnGrrl said:
Guess either of you haven't read much of your bibles

Deuteronomy 17:1-7

1 Do not sacrifice to the LORD your God an ox or a sheep that has any defect or flaw in it, for that would be detestable to him. 2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. 6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.

There are many more passages like this, but you would know this if you read your bible.
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Cherry picking out of context (or your misunderstanding/misrepresentation) from the Old testament doesn't prove your point. I would also suggest you don't presume how much other read or don't read (or study) the Bible.

Question for you, do you believe or not believe in our (or any for that matter) justice system?
 
RockerGuy said:
In just 2 years we've had so many terrorist attacks. What are the coincidence that 99.99% it is of a particular religion? Or a particular view?

We don't hear about a radical Buddhist bombing people or stabbing them randomly. We don't hear of radical Hindus or radical Christians lobing people's head off.

Oh here's another point to ponder upon. In many countries where they're not a majority, they do not get along with others. China, Russia, London, France, Belgium, you name it. Tell me why!
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You are clearly an Islamaphobe. Off with your head!
 
Snobike Mike said:
Cherry picking out of context (or your misunderstanding/misrepresentation) from the Old testament doesn't prove your point. I would also suggest you don't presume how much other read or don't read (or study) the Bible.

Question for you, do you believe or not believe in our (or any for that matter) justice system?
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It's hardly out of context it is the whole passage, it is in the bible, people died because of passages like these. How many people did the inquisition kill for not believing? How many Christians have went to war because other people not believing in the same manner?

And we don't have a justice system, we have a legal system.

Go read your bible, see how much violence is in it, don't just cherry pick the parts where it says to be nice to each other.
 
CruisnGrrl said:
It's hardly out of context it is the whole passage, it is in the bible, people died because of passages like these. How many people did the inquisition kill for not believing? How many Christians have went to war because other people not believing in the same manner?

And we don't have a justice system, we have a legal system.

Go read your bible, see how much violence is in it, don't just cherry pick the parts where it says to be nice to each other.
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So you agree then that the passage you quoted actually describes a legal (justice) system?

A passage is part of a whole book, or book of books. You can't read 100 words out of your favourite book and know the whole story. But if we do just focus on your text let's break it down:

1. There is a law prescribed by God
2. If there are people in society that break the law, witnesses are to investigate thoroughly.
3. If the offence is proven to be true, including ensuring there are sufficient witnesses, then there is punishment

Sounds like it is describing a pretty thorough and fair process for a legal system. And since you don't believe in God, just substitute that for whatever superior being you believe in (which could include mankind). Of course I suspect you'll take issue with the punishment as well, but that debate does not require the Bible to be in the middle of it. The death penalty is and has been used around the world forever and much if it has nothing to do with the Bible.

In terms of the "inquisition" (which are you referring to?), or Christians going to war (please be specific vs. making broad generalizations), please quote texts and also please identify whether or not what you're quoting is either prescriptive, or descriptive in your opinion. Just because you might be able to point to certain historical events as being, in your opinion, wrong because it may have been Christians who were the "offenders", doesn't make the Bible errant.
 
defeater905 said:
I completely disagree. Religion is a tool to improve one's self and that should be it. It's hard for a pleb like me to explain. But it is damaging when you take your religious beliefs and try to implement them into science or politics or law. Doesn't mean religion is bad. I used think that way too..
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RockerGuy said:
They can put a label on me all they want. It still doesn't change the fact that some random nutjob would like me dead so they can get their point across.

My life for their cause, no thanks!
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There are 500+ murders a year in this country. Roughly about 80% either the victim was known to police AND/OR the victim and the assailant knew each other. That means roughly 20% are random victims, or 100 people plus a year. SO... that means that 100 people are killed a year randomly by a nut job that wanted to kill them for little reason, we should be just as or even more concerned about this??? Problem is we are totally desensitized to it, but for now we still get wound up about terrorism. In short we should be worried about all of it, but random murder is the bigger threat.

Snobike Mike said:
Link to Chapter and verse.....and context please. Also ensure you consider the difference between prescriptive and descriptive when providing link.
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Why bother, we already know the responses:

1) It is out of context--first standard cognitive dissonance response.
2) You do not understand--second standard response....
3) XXX is speaking in parables--third standard response...
4) It is a misquote or it was added later and it is not true (basically biblical alternative facts/fake news or whatever)--fourth standard response...

But just to prove the point....

Christ is quoted in the new testament as saying bring the non-believers to be slain at my feet--que one of the four above.

Problem is, too many take it as the rule of law....

The bigger issue is the deity leading by example:

Genesis, the flood. Genocide killing almost the entire earth's population by drowning, including completely innocent children.

Exodus, killing the first born child (passover). This is basically murder since Egypt at the time was an absolute monarchy (using modern terms) and those people (specifically children) had nothing to do with any of it. One Abrahamic religion still celebrates this specific murder of children today, and Wasn't that Jesus guy doing just that (celebrating the murder of children) at the last supper???

Joshua (later Exodus): Now this was people aided and likely commanded by the deity, they took the sword to every man, women, and CHILD but they left the prostitute that helped them alive in Jerico... Again killing innocent children. They also did something similar to I think Ai. In modern terms we call this genocide as well.

I can go on.... que one of the four standard responses noted above for every one.

We haven't even covered the craziness of Leviticus, etc. BTW Christ said that the old testament stands, que fifth response, Christ is a liar...

In the end there are thousands of gods, some vry positive some not so much. Why pick one that has murdered children? I used to be agnostic until I had children, then the thought of a deity that murders children has made me pretty much atheist.

Want me to believe you only need to do two things:

1) Prove the god exists.
2) Prove that most of the old testament and about half (give or take) of the new is a lie.
 
RockerGuy said:
I have a phobia for anything that jeopardizes my life
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Your only point is to discredit muslims as less than us. We are all one and the same, human. Religion does not matter.

Heck, when I was a kid I got caught in the schoolyard winging snowballs - and got the strap (6 shots on the inside of my hands). whoopee do, I deserved it; although afterwards, I did get rock star like attention from the other schoolyard kids. All catholics must be evil!! Striking children!! pure crap. What did the catholic religion do to our indigenous youth? I cannot fathom what it would be like to have my children taken by force, from my hands, and kept in a residential school. Now that is true horror. That these things did happen doesn't mean all catholic religion and its followers are evil.

Through mass propaganda and mind control, we are being side tracked from opening our consciousness to what is happening to all humans of the world. The new world order of control and enslavement, evil legions carrying out satans plan. The war in the middle east is about resources, wealth, and control. Nothing else. Our governments, (worldwide) regardless of whether they are left or right, are in collusion with corporate/world banking/super wealth to control and enslave all humans. A con of biblical proportions and consequence. Money and greed are the tools of choice.

Meanwhile, they occupy our minds with BS discussion in this thread..

You have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being killed by a terrorist. The West has spent over a trillion dollars (fathom that number) in military might to stop the so called terror threat. If the threat of being killed by lightning is many times higher than that of being killed by terrorism - why haven't we spent trillions protecting ourselves from lightning? Think about that. Just as we have been programmed to hate, ISIS has also been programmed to hate. It is all part of a plan. Open your consciousness to the truth, and start to occupy your minds with that.

I have been reading the bible, and an english translation of the quran, and have come to the conclusion that in broad terms they are both saying the same thing. Open your consciousness now and understand we have the same enemy. Satan.
 
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Snobike Mike said:
So you agree then that the passage you quoted actually describes a legal (justice) system?

A passage is part of a whole book, or book of books. You can't read 100 words out of your favourite book and know the whole story. But if we do just focus on your text let's break it down:

1. There is a law prescribed by God
2. If there are people in society that break the law, witnesses are to investigate thoroughly.
3. If the offence is proven to be true, including ensuring there are sufficient witnesses, then there is punishment

Sounds like it is describing a pretty thorough and fair process for a legal system. And since you don't believe in God, just substitute that for whatever superior being you believe in (which could include mankind). Of course I suspect you'll take issue with the punishment as well, but that debate does not require the Bible to be in the middle of it. The death penalty is and has been used around the world forever and much if it has nothing to do with the Bible.

In terms of the "inquisition" (which are you referring to?), or Christians going to war (please be specific vs. making broad generalizations), please quote texts and also please identify whether or not what you're quoting is either prescriptive, or descriptive in your opinion. Just because you might be able to point to certain historical events as being, in your opinion, wrong because it may have been Christians who were the "offenders", doesn't make the Bible errant.
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lets see there was the spanish inquisition, i was expecting that you wouldn't be familiar with that one since it is pretty famous. Salem witch trials are a perfect example of that passage. There's the genocide of the native americans that didn't convert to christianity.

Christians going to war against other christians... how about the thirty years war or is that cherry picking? The northern ireland conflict. The holy roman empire was bitterly divided by war between catholics and protestants. Christians have been fighting christians over christianity for hundreds of years, sure people were more involved in the fighting during the 16th and 17th centuries, but it still happened, most got tired of it after millions of people died.

The torah, bible and quran all stem from the same religion and even share some passages and beliefs. If you ask a muslim how man was created they will quote you the book of genesis (not to be confused with the back catalog of the band that phil collins was in) To say islam is evil because it has such and such passage, christianity and judaism also have similar or same passages. Pot meet kettle.

When was the last time you had a muslim or jew come to your door and tell you that you were going to hell because you didn't believe in god the way they did? Ever have an atheist on your doorstep to tell you about the wonders of science?
 
Jesus, the bible was written, when? The Quran? This is 2017. Can we agree violence motivated by old religious texts is bs? Who is the problem in 2017? Why are we appeasing these people? In our own country? Madness. (who cares what happened 1/2 century ago, I was not in that class)
 
inreb said:
Jesus, the bible was written, when? The Quran? This is 2017. Can we agree violence motivated by old religious texts is bs? Who is the problem in 2017? Why are we appeasing these people? In our own country? Madness. (who cares what happened 1/2 century ago, I was not in that class)
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Because..... Feelings
 
RockerGuy said:
In just 2 years we've had so many terrorist attacks. What are the coincidence that 99.99% it is of a particular religion? Or a particular view?

We don't hear about a radical Buddhist bombing people or stabbing them randomly. We don't hear of radical Hindus or radical Christians lobing people's head off.

Oh here's another point to ponder upon. In many countries where they're not a majority, they do not get along with others. China, Russia, London, France, Belgium, you name it. Tell me why!
Click to expand...

the west hasn't murdered 100,000 plus buddists. the west only targets the middle east, ya know, where all the oil is. and I doubt the 100,000 + that have been murdered in the middle east were all terrorists. but I'm sure it made a few...

USA soldiers commit suicide at a rate of more than 1 a day in the middle east. If lives mattered they would save a lot more if they withdrew their troops.

the US killed between 1-6 million in vietnam. The declaration of war was based on the grounds that vietnam bombed a US warship. Turns out (and well documented) that the so called attack of the warship was a total fabrication (known as a false flag attck). 1-6 million killed based on a lie. sounds eerily familiar to 911. Oh, and don't forget the false flag attack on a public train station in europe by the CIA. That attack was blamed on russia (this too is well documented and revealed).
Weird how no one talks about this history. Or of how US businessmen were able to supply Germany with munitions and fuel during the second world war. the list goes on...

open your consciousness
 
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Snobike Mike said:
Well the lefties will call you intolerant and create new laws to suppress your free speech.

And then there are those of us that know that Sharia Law is precisely the inevitable risk and hence we don't want Shiny Pony importing any more terrorists.....I mean refugees willy nilly.
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Yes...the extremely popular muslim mayor of London has enforced Sharia law on the city...oh wait..no he didn't. Can you do me a favour...can you spell alarmist for me?
 
inreb said:
Don't millions of people practice religion without any of the negatives you list? You can have one without the other you know. Please bear in mind I was responding to your response to Defeater905 post #30.
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But even if those millions of people don't actively participate in actual abuse they passively participate by turning a blind eye.

It took a investigation by the Boston Globe to uncover the names of over 200 clerics that had abused more that 1000 people, and that was only the ones that came forward. I find it difficult to believe that anyone in the diocese knew this was going on.

This was in Boston, I would suspect its much worse in Africa, South America, Middle east.

I work with a guy from Ireland. It was drummed into him growing up that if you said anything bad against a priest you would immediate drop dead, as it had happened to a friend of a friend of a friend. BTW, Padraic is now the most rabid anti-catholic person I know.
 
j2 said:
But even if those millions of people don't actively participate in actual abuse they passively participate by turning a blind eye.

It took a investigation by the Boston Globe to uncover the names of over 200 clerics that had abused more that 1000 people, and that was only the ones that came forward. I find it difficult to believe that anyone in the diocese knew this was going on.

This was in Boston, I would suspect its much worse in Africa, South America, Middle east.

I work with a guy from Ireland. It was drummed into him growing up that if you said anything bad against a priest you would immediate drop dead, as it had happened to a friend of a friend of a friend. BTW, Padraic is now the most rabid anti-catholic person I know.
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Sorry, not sure I remember all the Irish apologising for a few nutbars running around blowing things up when the IRA was active? The Brits knew it was just a small bunch of twats. Do the Spanish apologise for all the Basque separatists? All Sri Lankans for Tamil tigers? Do all football supporters apologise for football hooligans even? I bet you get ****** off (rightly) when a radical feminist asks you to apologise on behalf of all men for rape culture....that's the same bloody thing.

Sensible people understand that the vast majority of people are good. The minority are disturbed or criminal in intent.
 
jc100 said:
Sorry, not sure I remember all the Irish apologising for a few nutbars running around blowing things up when the IRA was active? The Brits knew it was just a small bunch of twats. Do the Spanish apologise for all the Basque separatists? All Sri Lankans for Tamil tigers? Do all football supporters apologise for football hooligans even? I bet you get ****** off (rightly) when a radical feminist asks you to apologise on behalf of all men for rape culture....that's the same bloody thing.

Sensible people understand that the vast majority of people are good. The minority are disturbed or criminal in intent.
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Its not the same thing. People witness child rape and don't come forward? I would, but then again I'm only a big hearted Existentialist
 
j2 said:
Its not the same thing. People witness child rape and don't come forward? I would, but then again I'm only a big hearted Existentialist
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explain how it's not the same thing? Do you think all Muslims have each other's email addresses and belong to the same gang do you?
 
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