Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 83 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

https://www.therecord.com/news-stor...et-2020-electric-vehicle-target-analysts-say/

interesting read ^^


basically, electric car adoption won't be realized till 2030 and beyond.



Heed my original advice I've been preaching in this thread which I repeated many times.... just stick to a good Hybrid car until electric cars are truly ready for mass adoption in 2030 and beyond.....

Curious why you make such a statement but you don't follow it.....

I am sure your Tesla Model 3 will be at your door step way before 2030, if you actually do have one on reservation....

Why put in a reservation, when you can just get one off the lot by 2030, for now you should be in your Hybrid, and enjoying it for the next 12 years.....since it's the way to go....

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wait till you discover led lighting...

Done, long, long ago.

I cleared out multiple Zellers locations of all their LED stock when they were going out of business and it went to 50% markdown. Even though LED bulbs were still between $15-$30 each back then I changed the most frequently used bulbs in the house at that point as it made sense even at the still higher cost. As LED came down in price I converted the remainder of the house and finished about 2 years ago.

The only incandescent bulbs left in the house is the oven (LED won’t work, they’d melt), and the dryer - same thing.
 
At about 4000kms thus far, I've traveled about 500 using gas and about 3500 using the battery. On the old FJ, at (a generous, IMO) 14L/100KMs, it would have cost me $700 using premium at 1.25/L (again, generous ... but i usually filled up at costco when possible). I calculated a Volt cost of around $80 combined for electricity and gas. I only charge at off peak times, and assuming a price per litre of $1.15.

Savings of roughly $620 over 2.5 months of ownership. I don't understand why people who drive mostly in the city wouldn't consider an EV before 2030?? Seems like an easy decision to me. I love the Volt so far!

d

It really is a no-brainer isn't it? I think I convinced someone I know when I told her after I filled up the Volt in Oct that I went since Jan on the previous fill-up. She'll be looking for a replacement soon and I'll be doing the math for her to see when the pay-back is vs something like a Civic.
 
The more people talk about the benefits of EV, the more I think that anyone planning a power drop in the garage should just bite the bullet and wire for two chargers. My wife normally drives hundreds of km a day, but occasionally there is a charger at the other end so she could cut her gas usage in half (which saves ~$5000/yr). Again, I don't think we are ready for two pure EV's but Volt-like powertrains make a ton of sense for most people (assuming the up-front cost is reasonable).

From the sparkies on the board, are people wiring a single 80A circuit with two outlets or two 40A circuits (in which case a garage sub panel is probably cost-effective)? I would think you would need to do separate circuits as it would take too much room in a box to splice the fat cable.
 
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On a better note ... I have been poking around the Volt (not vehicle for me due to its length and my car full of things limitations) and cannot help myself to understand one thing. New one priced off the Chevy calculator is 28,854$ (LT model base basically). Includes taxes, all fees and EVIP rebate. Autotrader, has a load of used 2017's with no more 35000 km but all of them are priced > 30K (yeah some are Premier trim, but still ...) .... what am I missing? Is there a supply problem with the new stock? Otherwise, why would anyone pay such high used prices??
 
The more people talk about the benefits of EV, the more I think that anyone planning a power drop in the garage should just bite the bullet and wire for two chargers. My wife normally drives hundreds of km a day, but occasionally there is a charger at the other end so she could cut her gas usage in half (which saves ~$5000/yr). Again, I don't think we are ready for two pure EV's but Volt-like powertrains make a ton of sense for most people (assuming the up-front cost is reasonable).

You can wire for two chargers, but you surely cannot use both at the same time .... if we are considering widely used 100 Amp house service. New houses might be 200 Amp, but surely that was not the case until recently ... or is it even standard in houses built today?

I think it's more likely that people in our lifetimes will just have one charger and charge on alternating days. With 300km range battery packs, it really is as easy as breathing ....
 
You can wire for two chargers, but you surely cannot use both at the same time

The volt charges at a maximum of 16 A at 220 V, so even to charging at the same time is only 32 A. Even on a 100 amp service that still leaves a good majority of capacity.

If we are talking something like a bolt that charges at 32 A, two of those at the same time we only live about 30A reserve admittedly on a 100 amp service, but even at that for the average household it would work just fine – most people overestimate how much their typical draw is – I have a whole home power meter that shows our usage second by second and even in our worst case scenario this past summer (Lots of people over, House lit up, Central air conditioning, pool pump on, oven and a few burners on the stove going AND our Volt charging in the driveway) I couldn't get our house to exceed 100A. The previous owners of our house spec'd 200 amp service which was nice, but a grossly exceeds the needs of most people even today short of the two EV situation with both charging at high amps.

If you are on a 100 amp service and rely on electric heat I could see a potential problem in the winter months, however even then a single EV like a volt charging at 16 A will still work just fine.
 
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You can wire for two chargers, but you surely cannot use both at the same time .... if we are considering widely used 100 Amp house service. New houses might be 200 Amp, but surely that was not the case until recently ... or is it even standard in houses built today?

I am sure a sparky will know for sure, but I think 200 amps was standard in the 70's and 80's when electric heat was the way of the future. My 1000 sq ft crap *** subdivision house has 200A, there is no way the builder would have done that unless forced too. I think it dropped to 100A in the 90's sometime and now I think is headed up again to allow EV's/grid balancing (not brought up yet by gov, but I am sure they will start using plugged in vehicles as peaking power if two-way chargers become standard).

If I get an EV, I will put a 100A sub-panel near the front of the garage to allow easy connection of whatever comes along in the future. Tesla's charging at high speed can apparently play nicely with each other and charge sequentially (which is good because I think they can pull up to 100A each).
 
I am sure a sparky will know for sure, but I think 200 amps was standard in the 70's and 80's when electric heat was the way of the future. My 1000 sq ft crap *** subdivision house has 200A, there is no way the builder would have done that unless forced too. I think it dropped to 100A in the 90's sometime and now I think is headed up again to allow EV's/grid balancing (not brought up yet by gov, but I am sure they will start using plugged in vehicles as peaking power if two-way chargers become standard).

If I get an EV, I will put a 100A sub-panel near the front of the garage to allow easy connection of whatever comes along in the future. Tesla's charging at high speed can apparently play nicely with each other and charge sequentially (which is good because I think they can pull up to 100A each).


It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but we will repeat again. Starting Jan 1, any building permit taken out in Ontario, the house will require 1) a 200amp service- yes even your 1000sqft townhouse and 2) a pipe or raceway of some sort from the garage to the panel for future electric car needs.

Ontario is all in with this electric car hype, even though we are at less than 1% take rate.

they spent millions and millions of dollars building an EV brainwash center somewhere in Toronto, and on charging stations along the highway.


This money would have been better spent on funding Hydrogen stations. You will see, they will get it sooner or later when they figure things out.


Last but not least, we've seen Tesla chargers requiring 80, 90 and even 100amps for their charges.
 
I am sure a sparky will know for sure, but I think 200 amps was standard in the 70's and 80's when electric heat was the way of the future. My 1000 sq ft crap *** subdivision house has 200A, there is no way the builder would have done that unless forced too. I think it dropped to 100A in the 90's sometime and now I think is headed up again to allow EV's/grid balancing (not brought up yet by gov, but I am sure they will start using plugged in vehicles as peaking power if two-way chargers become standard).

If I get an EV, I will put a 100A sub-panel near the front of the garage to allow easy connection of whatever comes along in the future. Tesla's charging at high speed can apparently play nicely with each other and charge sequentially (which is good because I think they can pull up to 100A each).

For what it's worth, my townhouse was build around 1985 I believe and has 100Amp service. Clearly the newer, the bigger, the more likely it has more than 100Amp service ... law will take care of the new houses.
 
This money would have been better spent on funding Hydrogen stations. You will see, they will get it sooner or later when they figure things out.

Sorry that I am not ignoring you like I normally do, but you certainly take the cake with this post .... I guess that is a standard procedure for you, isn't it? You have a problem with EV cars today, but you do not have a problem with hydrogen BS being competitive maybe in 2060??? Or when exactly do you think that will be. OK, that's more than enough for a short reply ...
 
http://carsort.com/compare/Chevrolet-Volt-vs-Hyundai-Accent

The article is six year old and the major change would be the Volt range IIRC. The killer is the price difference. The Volt wins in just about every other category.

I'm not sure what a present comparison would be as MSRP's and gas/energy prices have changed. The Volt is automatically an automatic.

My Elantra costs me about a thousand dollars a year more in energy than a Volt. For that I get three minute fill ups anywhere and a lump of cash in my pocket.

I'm guessing a new EV will be about $10K more than a similar ICE. That money in my pocket will pay for my gas for 10 years.

Also the $14,000.00 Provincial rebate to push Auntie Kathie's Hydro debacle is money STOLEN from the tax payer. Money that could be used to cut medical treatment times, increase education funding, pave roads, build rapid transit etc.

Dump the rebate and EV sales will shrivel and die.

In some ways EVs are like putting ethanol in gas when the real numbers are worked through. The EV may be the future but distant future.
 
The volt charges at a maximum of 16 A at 220 V, so even to charging at the same time is only 32 A. Even on a 100 amp service that still leaves a good majority of capacity.

If we are talking something like a bolt that charges at 32 A, two of those at the same time we only live about 30A reserve admittedly on a 100 amp service, but even at that for the average household it would work just fine – most people overestimate how much their typical draw is – I have a whole home power meter that shows our usage second by second and even in our worst case scenario this past summer (Lots of people over, House lit up, Central air conditioning, pool pump on, oven and a few burners on the stove going AND our Volt charging in the driveway) I couldn't get our house to exceed 100A. The previous owners of our house spec'd 200 amp service which was nice, but a grossly exceeds the needs of most people even today short of the two EV situation with both charging at high amps.

If you are on a 100 amp service and rely on electric heat I could see a potential problem in the winter months, however even then a single EV like a volt charging at 16 A will still work just fine.

I was more thinking of 30A plus charging, because that is what most 200km plus range cars really need. Without having to really go crazy every time you get home, rushing to plug-in.
 
On a better note ... I have been poking around the Volt (not vehicle for me due to its length and my car full of things limitations) and cannot help myself to understand one thing. New one priced off the Chevy calculator is 28,854$ (LT model base basically). Includes taxes, all fees and EVIP rebate. Autotrader, has a load of used 2017's with no more 35000 km but all of them are priced > 30K (yeah some are Premier trim, but still ...) .... what am I missing? Is there a supply problem with the new stock? Otherwise, why would anyone pay such high used prices??

I see the same thing on the new Volt, $28,854 after rebate. Throw in the HST and a $2k discount and OTD it's $30k.

Just for giggles, I checked on the price of a new Civic LX and it was about $8k cheaper assuming the same $2k discount (not likely on a Honda Civic but let's go with it). At a monthly fill-up of $240 less the electricity charge of say $40 leaves a net "fuel" cost of $200/month or $2,400/yr for a break-even early in the 3rd year. After that, it's gravy.
 
I was more thinking of 30A plus charging, because that is what most 200km plus range cars really need. Without having to really go crazy every time you get home, rushing to plug-in.

People forget that the amps listing on their electrical panels is at 240V as well - even a 100A panel can supply 200A@120V since there's two hots coming into your house, both at 100A each. A 200A panel can supply 400A@ 120V. So, even a 60A draw at 240V (two Bolts in the driveway for example) still leaves 40A@240V, or 80A at 120V.

And on a 100 amp service, the remaining 70 A is more than enough, again, ruling out things like relying on baseboard electric heat in the middle of February or something. The average house with a forced air furnace generally uses As little as a few hundred watts at rest (Mine is showing 490 W at this exact moment) To an "average" (Say, cooking dinner, stove, kettle, etc) of 25-45A) and under extreme circumstances (say, electric dryer as well as stove going at the same time), maybe 60-70A for short periods.


Again, most people drastically overestimate how many amps their house is using. Even during a peak dinnertime period this time of year I'm lucky to see our wattmeter creep up to 8KW (oven going, a few burners on the stove, furnace running, kids doing their thing, and the Volt charging) which on a240V feed is only a mere 33 amps. Only once ever have I see it surpass 10KW (10.5KW), and again, that was in my earlier example in the summer, and 10.5KW @ 240V is only 43A on the panel.

Yes, your amps limit is worthy of consideration (especially if you have a 100A service and have a major 240V draw like a hot tub that can draw 50-60A on it's own), but again, we're getting into theoretical situations that most people don't apply to.

In general, even a 100A service will do for the meantime.
 
I kind of agree with you, but it depends on the family. I can see where weekends could get very dicey ... with laundry being done, cooking stove going full tilt .... so if the furnace turns on and I am charging at 30A x 2 cars .... there could be a little bit of darkness .... LOL
 
I kind of agree with you, but it depends on the family. I can see where weekends could get very dicey ... with laundry being done, cooking stove going full tilt .... so if the furnace turns on and I am charging at 30A x 2 cars .... there could be a little bit of darkness .... LOL

Agreed to some extent...but also depends on a lot of variables. Average gas/oil forced air furnace on only draws around 7000-1000w once running. Dryer gas, or electric? Electric dryer is going to have a bigger effect obviously but a gas dryer, again, once running...only draws a few hundred watts.

Again, most people way overestimate the amount of amps they need/consume.
 
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I kind of agree with you, but it depends on the family. I can see where weekends could get very dicey ... with laundry being done, cooking stove going full tilt .... so if the furnace turns on and I am charging at 30A x 2 cars .... there could be a little bit of darkness .... LOL

I'm not advocating it, but somewhere in GTAM, I calculated trip currents required. You can pull over the rated capacity for quite a while before you trip (IIRC something like overloading 30% for 30 minutes). That should be more than enough time for your stove to be up to temp and start cycling thereby dramatically reducing the load. Using over 100A without electric heat is hard.

What kind of furnace do you have (presumably fuel burning)? As a proof of concept, I ran my house off a Honda 2000W generator (1600 continuous watts). Obviously I didn't run anything on 220V or any resistance heaters, but it had no problem with fridge, furnace and whatever else we wanted to turn on. That's less than 15A to run the house. I didn't run the washing machine, but it would have worked fine (I probably would have unplugged the fridge as it might have struggled with fridge and washing machine concurrently). Without resistance heaters, I still say it's hard to get a normal size house to pull more than 100A.
 
Agreed to some extent...but also depends on a lot of variables. Average gas/oil forced air furnace on only draws around 7000-10000w once running. Dryer gas, or electric? Electric dryer is going to have a bigger effect obviously but a gas dryer, again, once running...only draws a few hundred watts.

Again, most people way overestimate the amount of amps they need/consume.

7000 to 10000 watts PP? Did you get the decimal in the wrong place? At full power, my furnace is less than 1000 watts (and it never goes to full power on heat unless you are trying to raise the temperature).
 

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