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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
I like the look of those, too, but they were destined to fail.
Waaaaayyy too expensive compared to a Volt.
Two-door coupes are dead in the market at any rate.
Not having a hatchback and having only two doors made the Volt the more practical choice.
The marketplace didn't put a value on the upgraded suspension and interior and other parts that the ELR had.
A customer of mine was making parts for those. The line started out in the main plant. Then a while later they relocated it to a corner of a warehouse and ran it for (I think) one shift per MONTH to build enough parts to satisfy what little demand there was.
Less than 3000 of them were ever built, total, over three model years. Less than 100 total were sold in Canada. This is a rare car. Whether it's going to be a rare car that's actually worth something ... is something we don't know the answer to.
Waaaaayyy too expensive compared to a Volt.
Two-door coupes are dead in the market at any rate.
Not having a hatchback and having only two doors made the Volt the more practical choice.
The marketplace didn't put a value on the upgraded suspension and interior and other parts that the ELR had.
A customer of mine was making parts for those. The line started out in the main plant. Then a while later they relocated it to a corner of a warehouse and ran it for (I think) one shift per MONTH to build enough parts to satisfy what little demand there was.
Less than 3000 of them were ever built, total, over three model years. Less than 100 total were sold in Canada. This is a rare car. Whether it's going to be a rare car that's actually worth something ... is something we don't know the answer to.
Been meaning to followup with this thread for a while, but stuff keeps getting in the way.
The ELR is cool I agree, but, yeah, the price killed it. If they built it again but with the Bolt drivetrain (and range), and on top of it, and managed to keep the price down to something non insane, I think it'd sell well, but that's pie in the sky right now.
Anyhow, on the topic of preconditioning vs battery usage, here's two screenshots from my OnStar app. The first one was taken before I preconditioned - don't mind the low range despite the battery being "full" - a series of short drives with high HVAC heat demand caused the guessometer to drop a lot just before this.
The second screenshot was taken 10 minutes later when the precondition ended and the car started charging again.
As you can see, the number of kilometers lost (which is all that shows in the car) seems minor, but when you actually see it by percentage (10%) in the app, it seems more drastic, and I suspect has a far bigger difference than a few kilometers in greater scheme of things.
It takes about 10-15 minutes on my L2 charger to recover this battery loss on the first precondition, and on the second precondition the interior of the car is warm enough (and the coolant is still quite hot) so the car is able to get all the amps it needs from the L2 alone without dipping into the battery as well, so it stays at 100% for the most part.
We just got back from a weekend away at Hockley Valley Resort and we were able to get access to a plug there to use our portable charging lead. Once you get used to L2 charging it's a bit painful going back to L1 - about 8.5 hours for a full charge, and although it got the job done preconditioning was a whole different ball of wax as instead of a 8-10 minute recovery from the initial "stone cold" precondition it took about 30 minutes instead and resulted in a +10% loss in the battery because the car can only draw 12A@120V vs 16A@240V from the EVSE, so it relies a lot more on the battery.
That said, it did the job, and we did almost all of our driving in the area on battery alone.
We also switched to our snow tires before this trip. On the way there it seemed to have a far bigger effect on the electric range (and gas consumption) than I had hoped, but then on the drive home I observed little change at all, so I think the jury is still out. I will be tracking things in the coming weeks to see the overall average effect of the snows.
The ELR is cool I agree, but, yeah, the price killed it. If they built it again but with the Bolt drivetrain (and range), and on top of it, and managed to keep the price down to something non insane, I think it'd sell well, but that's pie in the sky right now.
Anyhow, on the topic of preconditioning vs battery usage, here's two screenshots from my OnStar app. The first one was taken before I preconditioned - don't mind the low range despite the battery being "full" - a series of short drives with high HVAC heat demand caused the guessometer to drop a lot just before this.
The second screenshot was taken 10 minutes later when the precondition ended and the car started charging again.
As you can see, the number of kilometers lost (which is all that shows in the car) seems minor, but when you actually see it by percentage (10%) in the app, it seems more drastic, and I suspect has a far bigger difference than a few kilometers in greater scheme of things.
It takes about 10-15 minutes on my L2 charger to recover this battery loss on the first precondition, and on the second precondition the interior of the car is warm enough (and the coolant is still quite hot) so the car is able to get all the amps it needs from the L2 alone without dipping into the battery as well, so it stays at 100% for the most part.
We just got back from a weekend away at Hockley Valley Resort and we were able to get access to a plug there to use our portable charging lead. Once you get used to L2 charging it's a bit painful going back to L1 - about 8.5 hours for a full charge, and although it got the job done preconditioning was a whole different ball of wax as instead of a 8-10 minute recovery from the initial "stone cold" precondition it took about 30 minutes instead and resulted in a +10% loss in the battery because the car can only draw 12A@120V vs 16A@240V from the EVSE, so it relies a lot more on the battery.
That said, it did the job, and we did almost all of our driving in the area on battery alone.
We also switched to our snow tires before this trip. On the way there it seemed to have a far bigger effect on the electric range (and gas consumption) than I had hoped, but then on the drive home I observed little change at all, so I think the jury is still out. I will be tracking things in the coming weeks to see the overall average effect of the snows.
One thing that keeps coming up is that one has to be prudent with the assets (Battery charge). As a professional driver you are used to keeping logs but many people out there can't figure out that two nickels equal a dime. For them an ICE keeps them from being stranded.
BTW I watched the Tesla semi intro on Youtube. Statistics are always interesting and the uphill performance of the rig was impressive as was the 0-60 times.
I'd like to see a more detailed breakdown of their stats on how "80% of runs are under 250 miles" translates to the real world.
BTW I watched the Tesla semi intro on Youtube. Statistics are always interesting and the uphill performance of the rig was impressive as was the 0-60 times.
I'd like to see a more detailed breakdown of their stats on how "80% of runs are under 250 miles" translates to the real world.
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Indeed, although it's far less of an issue on the higher capacity EV's. On a Bolt for example I wouldn't be one bit concerned about a 125KM trip to Hockley Valley because I know it has tons more range, even though we were relying on a slow L1 charge while we were there.
One of the big improvements on the Gen2 Volt as well as most EV's now is that they provide a far more intuitive "range" of available EV miles, instead of a simple guess-o-meter number (which can actually go UP as you drive sometimes if the current drive is slower/better than the previous drive on which it's basing it's assumptions) which provides a better safety buffer for the driver. For example, the Bolt provides a gauge which shows a maximum and minimum number of Kilometers the car will achieve. Drive effeciently and you'll get the high number. Drive like Mario Andretti with the heat on high and every power accessory blasting, and you'll get at least the lesser number.
I'm very skeptical about the Tesla semi. Some of the numbers just don't make sense, especially with regards to charging times and the number of miles they seem to expect based on the battery capacity. I think the real world figures, if they actually get released (either by the companies, or more likely the drivers operating the tractors themselves) will be vastly different than the "rainbows and butterflies" figures Tesla is putting out there.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea, and yes, a good percentage of runs are indeed under 250 miles (city and regional P&D vs full load long haul, the very nature of where I work) so that puzzle piece fits, but again, I think there's also a ton of perfect world scenarios that they are relying on vs the "whatever can go wrong will go wrong" nature of the industry sometimes.
Only time will tell, but I'll be watching closely.
I am questioning if they'll actually hit the road even remotely close to their planned timeline though considering their Model3 debacle going on right now. They were supposed to be approaching 5000 cars per week right about now, and instead they've managed only a few hundred total, and have now pushed targets back to next March. IMHO they really should have concentrated on the M3 and tossed the semi and roadster on the back burner until they got that sorted out.
The semi and roadster are key parts of the musk smoke show to keep them pooping rainbows.
He has done some cool things, but he was way too cocky with T3 assembly. He should have had an experienced yet progressive partner like Magna that has done this before to help him learn how to rapidly assemble cheap(ish) vehicles.
On an unrelated note, a friend just bought a Pacifica with a drive train very similar to the Volt. I didn't even know that existed. A full 7 passenger van with decent economy (after purchase, holy crap it's expensive).
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I am not sure anymore it's his cockiness.
The reason I say that is the fact that there's no penalty for Tesla when a deadline is blown. Not anymore, anyway .... he clearly doesn't care the way others care when they look at deadlines and numbers. He knows he can just play with all the analysts and naysayers at this point. He says A, in the end B happens, but at this point everyone who watches (and at this point it is a lot of people, including OEM's) they start acting like it's A scenario happening. Which is exactly why all OEM's are tripping over each other with 2020 this and that. Musk? He's just sitting there and laughing .... it's not the same guy who was stressed out, running out of money, years ago. He's close to be done what he said he will do (high level goal to trip change from fossil to renewable in transportation) .... regardless when finally M3 will come out in decent volumes. It took me a while to realize watching Tesla and others, but this is what I believe is happening ....
Musk's goal has always been to spur change. I kind of expect that once the traditional automakers really get going with EV production he'll hand the reigns of Tesla over to more conservative management and move on to other pie in the sky projects. He has never really seemed concerned with profitability, only disrupting the traditional market.
Tesla is hemmoraging cash to the tune of $1Billion per quarter.
Musk may not care, but he could end up being like the knight in the Monty Python skit where he has no arms and legs but keeps yelling that everything is just fine. Eventually someone is going to care and the money is going to run out.
Who knows, He’d probably funnel personal or other business into Tesla (Is SpaceX turning a profit?) before he’d let it go bankrupt, but perhaps that’s what’s needed to have him take a little more serious look at things. It’s easy to be lacsidaisical when it’s all investor and customer money (in the form of M3 deposits) you’re burning through vs your own.
Musk may not care, but he could end up being like the knight in the Monty Python skit where he has no arms and legs but keeps yelling that everything is just fine. Eventually someone is going to care and the money is going to run out.
Who knows, He’d probably funnel personal or other business into Tesla (Is SpaceX turning a profit?) before he’d let it go bankrupt, but perhaps that’s what’s needed to have him take a little more serious look at things. It’s easy to be lacsidaisical when it’s all investor and customer money (in the form of M3 deposits) you’re burning through vs your own.
I can see the EV city / local delivery where an overnight charge is a no brainer but the ability pick up a long haul isn't there so why a sleeper configuration.
My friend that bought the pacifica realized that his T3 wasn't going to arrive in any useful timeframe so he is going to pull his deposit. I wonder if deposit returns will grow linearly or exponentially (as more direct competitors such as the Bolt become available, waiting years for a T3 makes less and less sense).
I could see people reverting to other options. But if they were so quick to put a deposit on the t3, when it actually comes out, it's going to be a novelty, the new "car to have" and will probably get rid of the "temporary relief"
At least that's how i see it.
Battery compartment made to look like a sleeper? A car probably uses 15hp or less average, I expect a truck will be at least 10 times that so the battery will need to be 10x the size of the Model S for similar range. It looks like the Model S battery pack is about 22 cu ft, so the truck pack should be about 220 cu ft. That would be hard to fit between the frame rails.
I was expecting a massive drop in range once I put the winters on (brand new) but honestly I've not seen any degradation in the range...basically get to work with the same remaining range as before...maybe 2-3km less...now when it's cold that's a different story. Typically get to work with 20-25km left from a starting range of 60km....dip below zero and I get to work with 5-7km left.
slowbird
Well-known member
Are your winters on the stock alloys too?
No. I went down to a 16" steel wheel instead of the 17"
I had our snows mounted on the aftermarket alloys our Volt came with. By the time I paid for a set of steel rims and a new set of TPMS transmitters the ROI was about 4 seasons of getting the tires swapped on a seasonal basis. I'm lucky I have access to a shop that does it for me for $60, so the math may not work out so well for someone paying $100+ for a full swap with remount and balance, however.
Unfortunately I ended up going without the TPMS sensors as I didn't feel they were worth the $300. As for tires I just do it at home as it's easy and quick.
Eventually, especially if we do buy a second Volt in the spring, I will probably look for a set of steelies for the snows, and I was able to find TPMS units online for a fraction of the tire shop or dealer cost, so it *can* be done cheaper, but still....at $60 for a full swap including balancing, unless I find a set of used rims it's still gonna cost me around $400. At $120 per year to swap on and off existing rims, considering we will be going through a set of tires one every few years anyways and would have to pay for a remount and balance anyways during the payback timeline, it's harder to make the argument against just using the alloys.
slowbird
Well-known member
The smaller diameter wheel might help with rotational mass but going to steel might even it back out again.
Depending on the weight of the aftermarket rim, if it's light that might be why you aint seeing much of a difference in range.
The TPMS in winter can be a pain in this car. The Volt wants you to set the pressures so high and they trigger if you get down to about the normal PSI of most cars. My winter tires don't have that high a max PSI rating so I have to run them at a health mix of low enough to grip and high enough to not trip the sensors.
I have the TPMS relearn tool if any of you fine folks require it
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