That's about right for a TDI. 3600 km on the highway should be about 200L on the 140hp, about 160L on the 90hp.
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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
That's about right for a TDI. 3600 km on the highway should be about 200L on the 140hp, about 160L on the 90hp.
Why not wait to install the bypass until after the sensor fails again?Already on order from the new guy making them.. (I see you're on the GM-Volt website as well
We got the car back last night and sure enough it was completely covered under the warranty, $0 due. I plan to drive it up until the point that the Voltec warranty is nearly expired before installing the sensor bypass - I want to make sure the code doesn't come up again indicating it may have actually been something else.
As for having the sensor overridden, apparently even if there is a legit battery coolant leak the temperature sensor in the battery will also halt charging the same as the problematic bottle sensor, so in the end it's somewhat irrelevant except for eliminating a common failure point.
Also the lack of a sensor would mean the difference between getting a warning before you get stranded, and being stranded with no warning if you don't catch the fluid level drop by visual inspection, so it's more relevant than just eliminating a common failure point.
The bottle sensor going bad doesn't strand you, it's just disables charging and amounts to a pain in the *** basically...and since I carry my OBD scantool adapter form my iPhone in the car I can clear it at will anywhere and resume charging, so no biggie.
Even if the coolant did actually leak out completely (and I've never heard it documented as a common issue ever except in an accident) the battery temp sensor takes its place when it detects a legit overheat (vs a wonky sensor) and disables the high voltage system as well as charging, but you're still not stranded, the car will still operate in ICE mode.
The only reason I don't want to bypass it at this point is so that it doesn't potentially mask a bigger or different problem aside from the sensor they replaced – I don't think this is the case, but with the warrantee coming to a close soon I want to cover all my bases.
Nah, they will be a Niche player in the high end market, and there is nothing wrong with that, Ala McLaren and others.
Smart move, thats where the money is, and Tesla has the chops to pull it off.
Ford et all, can duke it out in the low end of the market.
Just for the record, McClaren made a paltry $27.6 million USD profit in 2016 in their auto sector.
Ford made $10.4 Billion USD.
GM made $9.4 Billion USD
Chrysler made $6.7 Billion USD.
The cachet brands are in it for the cachet...profit is a pittance in the end. If Tesla decides to go down that road after all their investment in mass production vs the cachet X/S market (which even in that approach has done nothing but haemorrhage cash for a very long time) they are not going to exist in 10 years.
If you were an investor looking to actually make a return, you go with those "pittance" brands in a heartbeat.
Not too likely, most buyers of high end cars that I know think Tesla's tech is cool but the cars are bland and the interiors suck. Tesla has a very long way to go before they appeal to the average luxury car buyer and not just the people who are enamored with Elon or are in it for the tech. As companies like Porsche and Mercedes bring electric vehicles online Tesla is going to find it harder and harder to sell, simply because the tech will be close enough and the traditional auto manufacturers have way more experience delivering what that market wants.
I still really hope Tesla does well and manages to turn the corner and become a profitable company, but they have a very long way to go to get there.
Ah right, the ICE can always take over if the battery overheats.
But sensor was just replaced and works, yet you're talking about bypassing it now (you don't want to) or as soon as the warranty runs out (you want to). I'm saying never bypass it, until it shows signs that it's starting to fail again.
Model 3 is hardly high-end market car, I hope you agree?
Tesla is not interested to make Civic or Corolla version of theirs, but they are far lower down the high-end scale than McLaren. McLaren's volumes are miniscule in comparison (we are talking 1600 cars vs. 100000 cars), yet their average unit price is huge compared to average price of Tesla sold, even before model 3 hitting the market in full scale ....
slowbird
Well-known member
i think I see your train of thought.
If PP can just reset the Code and get the High Voltage system and charging back up again...why not wait until the sensor has failed again before swapping it
GateKeeper
Well-known member
Half the items in a Tesla are from Mercedes...LOL
Take a look at the steering wheel, even the window buttons....and so on...first time I sat in a Tesla S was about 2 weeks ago, I felt as if I was sitting in my Mercedes.....other than the big huge screen thingy in the middle of the dash of course..
But I still loved it....
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Valid argument, fair enough, but these sensors are a notorious issue on the Volt - probably one of the biggest ones actually.
But...the rest of the story with regards to these sensors however is that, apparently, under a certain set of circumstances they can trigger a "latched" code that cannot be cleared by a simple scantool, but requires more in depth module reprogramming by GM. At a cost of $100+.
My other justification for simply bypassing the sensor and permanently doing away with the potential issue is that although I can clear the code when it comes up, my wife is not so technically savvy – even if she had the hardware with her it would be a painful process to walk her through loading the diagnostic app on her phone, connecting to the module, clearing the codes etc. She'd probably get frustrated and just say F-it, honestly. Depending on the circumstances That could leave her driving on gas alone for a period of time
Hopefully GM fixed this on the Bolt (although their inability to permanently fix it on the Volt is worrying). In your case, it is an inconvenience and it may cost you a bit in fuel (realistically not many dollars, just annoyance). On a Bolt, failure to charge happens and you are quickly looking for rental cars.
I agree that the inability for GM to permanently fix this issue is a bit of a head scratcher, especially considering how much it has cost them over the years with related warranty claims for a $17 sensor, but several hours of related labor to empty the cooling system, replace the sensor, and then fill and purge it.
Complicating things a little bit however is that the car was not originally equipped with this sensor, it was added after production as part of the battery crash strength issue upgrade. I think some of the failures are related to bad workmanship on wire splices that were required, etc, not always just the sensor itself.
I love my wife dearly but charging her cell phone challenges her. I have to download the pictures on her camera.
I drove Bolt yesterday, for about 10 min. .... Very short time, with a guy constantly telling me things about the car I already knew, so he was distracting me ... LOL ... anyways, comparing to my Mini Cooper S, it actually felt on par as far as acceleration. It was very quite/smooth drive. Surprisingly, it felt a little bit smaller inside. My Cooper is 2 door, so the Bolt has a little bit bigger trunk and rear seat room. Considering it's about foot longer car, I would not have expected to feel smaller inside.
I hate cars with light spongy steering. The Bolt's actually didn't feel that bad.
I hate cars with light spongy steering. The Bolt's actually didn't feel that bad.
Did you really tromp on the accelerator pedal, or try it in sport mode?
My experience with the Volt is that the accelerator pedal is mapped extremely biased towards efficiency, however if you push it past the ~70% mark all of a sudden you get tossed back in your seat and it accelerates at a completely different pace. Putting in sport mode maps the pedal so that this occurs much earlier to give the sensation of more power, when in reality you can get the same power in "regular" mode but you need to push the pedal further.
I think if you actuallly pushed it you may have found the Bolt readily out performed your mini - it's 0-30 speed is about 1 second faster and I'm pretty sure it's numbers 30-60 are pretty spunky as well.
My experience with the Volt is that the accelerator pedal is mapped extremely biased towards efficiency, however if you push it past the ~70% mark all of a sudden you get tossed back in your seat and it accelerates at a completely different pace. Putting in sport mode maps the pedal so that this occurs much earlier to give the sensation of more power, when in reality you can get the same power in "regular" mode but you need to push the pedal further.
I think if you actuallly pushed it you may have found the Bolt readily out performed your mini - it's 0-30 speed is about 1 second faster and I'm pretty sure it's numbers 30-60 are pretty spunky as well.
They are rated about the same on paper 0-100 .... I had no time for mode changes and there was an older fella in the back, so out of respect to him and his neck I chose not to stomp on it. But the silly short test was enough to conclude that power and driving feel would not stop me from buying one when time is right. The comfort and size of the vehicle overall though might .... I also sit in new Volt and my conclusion would be that I would want Volt interior size and comfort, but Bolt's drivetrain and external dimensions .... I think what I am saying is that I really need BMW to release the Mini-E soon ....
Just realized our ownership period has elapsed 6 months now. Later today I'll do up some calcs of our total savings as well as stats over that period.
So, some quick stats.
We track our fuel consumption religiously via an iPhone app called "RoadTrip". I also track maintenance and expenses through it.
Using those stats, we come up with, for the Volt:
Now, lets compare this to our old Chrysler 300 over a similar milage time period. The dates don't match up as my wifes old job was lower mileage for her commute, but I found a set of dates in our tracking app that matched almost exactly - Feb10/2016 through Oct 10/2016.
Accordingly:
Total cost to operate the Volt over this period is roughly $1042.00 including gas and electricity.
Total cost to operate her old 300 over that same milage, including taking into consideration the difference in gas costs for todays reality, would have been $3007.50
For all intents and purposes the Volt has saved us $2000 over 6 months of ownership- so $4000/year vs a 10L/100KM car.
Needless to say if we were comparing it against someone driving a pickup truck or something with a 15-18L/100KM economy compared to just about any electric car the savings could reach an incredible $6000-$8000/year in operational savings. . At that rate you could entirely pay for something like a Bolt in around 5 years of ownership, a used Gen2 Volt in around 3 years of ownership, or a used Gen1 Volt in around 2 years.
We track our fuel consumption religiously via an iPhone app called "RoadTrip". I also track maintenance and expenses through it.
Using those stats, we come up with, for the Volt:
- Total distance driven since April 4 = 22,150KM
- Averaging 3.3L/100KM with my wife commuting roughly 155KM per day, return. We also focus almost all our weekend driving on the Volt vs my Magnum, and we try to do as much as physically possible on electric.
- Total fuel used = 811L.
- Total cost of fuel since we've owned the car (now over 6 months, 22,150KM) has been $892.08
- Unsure about total cost of electricity as that's hard to tally given all the variables, but I suspect around $150 as we charge exclusively off peak (@6.7c/KWH) and have barely noticed any difference in our electricity bills.
- Cost per Kilometer (just on gas) is $0.038c/KM.
- Total maintenance cost = 1 Oil change on April 27. Car still shows 60% oil life remaining as of today. It was free from the dealer. It has not needed once since.
Now, lets compare this to our old Chrysler 300 over a similar milage time period. The dates don't match up as my wifes old job was lower mileage for her commute, but I found a set of dates in our tracking app that matched almost exactly - Feb10/2016 through Oct 10/2016.
- Total distance driven = 22,087KM
- Averaged 10.86L/100KM over that period
- Total cost of fuel over that 22,087KM = $2354.00
- Total liters used = 2,425L
- Cost per kilometer on gas = $0.092c/KM
- Total maintenance cost = 3 oil changes at ~7000KM apart X $40/each = $120.00
- Gas cost adjustment - most fillups in that time period showed between $0.90 and $1.01/L - I'll say $0.95 for an average. Average prices we paid for the Volt were around $1.17/L on average. A 22c/L difference is not insignificant, so the 300 if operated on the same cost of fuel as what we are paying now would have an adjusted fuel cost amount of 2425x$0.22= $533.50 additional.
Accordingly:
Total cost to operate the Volt over this period is roughly $1042.00 including gas and electricity.
Total cost to operate her old 300 over that same milage, including taking into consideration the difference in gas costs for todays reality, would have been $3007.50
For all intents and purposes the Volt has saved us $2000 over 6 months of ownership- so $4000/year vs a 10L/100KM car.
Needless to say if we were comparing it against someone driving a pickup truck or something with a 15-18L/100KM economy compared to just about any electric car the savings could reach an incredible $6000-$8000/year in operational savings. . At that rate you could entirely pay for something like a Bolt in around 5 years of ownership, a used Gen2 Volt in around 3 years of ownership, or a used Gen1 Volt in around 2 years.
Just to add on, this is with my wife still driving home from work every day on the range extender. If/when she gets access to a charger at work our savings over this 6 month period could have possibly neared $3000 vs her old car.
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