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Thread: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

  1. #2041

    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riceburner View Post
    Tesla 3 costs about 40% more than a Carolla/Accord? So not really an "Everyman's" car? Don't most buy a car for the size they need/want? I'm not buying a tiny Smart car sized EV if I want a minivan.
    As I said earlier .... Tesla said they will produce US$35K vehicle and that's exactly what they have done. They never had intention to produce a car competing with the Corolla's or Civics. It's the naysayers and oil PR machine which took it and called it .... laughable every-man's car.

    As far as size of vehicle ...sure you do, but the sizing is irrelevant when offering is severely limiting. People who really want a good and long distance EV (decent shape and large enough battery) and pay under 50K have basically only one choice. With model 3 they will have a second option, so hence me saying the format and size of car doesn't matter much, especially when compared to Civic or Corolla ... there is and will not be Civic EV or Corolla EV for some time. If you are making reference to the ICE versions, I am not sure it matters at all. People buying model are completely different end group.
    Last edited by mxs; 01-15-2018 at 09:54 PM.

  2. #2042

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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    As I said earlier .... Tesla said they will produce US$35K vehicle and that's exactly what they have done.
    No they haven't. They have produced a US $43K vehicle. Not a single 35K M3 has been built and they keep pushing out the horizon for availability. I am not saying it's a bad car for 43, just the 35 is a bait and switch price as there is no possible way to get one at that price.

  3. #2043

    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Sorry, but now you reminding me of the oil whiners .... I am not gonna get it into the argument, because it's simply not worth it, but ..... there's a ton of people who recognize that the vehicle exists .... not like the vaporware of other PR announcements ..... just not in the before mentioned US$35K configuration yet.

    Really bait & switch?? .... english is not my 1st language, but even I know that its definition means something completely else.

    Would you admit that, really soon you will be able to order one? (even though most people really don't care to buy one in base trim anyways)?
    Last edited by mxs; 01-15-2018 at 11:20 PM.

  4. #2044

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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    Would you admit that, really soon you will be able to order one? (even though most people really don't care to buy one in base trim anyways)?
    No because you can't. A friend has his deposit in and plans to get a M3. He checked his place in line over xmas and for the long range car (44K), Teslas guess was February 2018, for the 35K car it was late 2018. Given that Tesla has no history of mass manufacturing and produced fewer M3's in 2017 than they planned on making in a week by the end of the year it is not a stretch that they may never get around to making a 35K car. Tesla could easily make them and deliver cars in the order deposits were received, but they have chosen not to because the upgrade generates so much profit(or possibly brings them back closer to break even as they would probably lose a lot on the cheap car).

    The cheap one has plenty of range for most people(350 km). Paying an extra US$9000 for an extra 150 km of range (and 0.5s off 0-60) would not be worth it for most people if they were given the choice.

  5. #2045

    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    OK, I get it ... they will never make US$35K car for your friend, nor they had any intention to do so, therefore we call this tactic a bait & switch. Of course you are wrong in stating that "Tesla could easily make them ... " .... obviously not, if you know anything about complexity of trims and how they can make already difficult production launch even more so. That is the only known reason, anything else is just blatant speculation. Would love to see the source backing up your assertion that Tesla would lose money on US$35K ..... pls, I have a lot of time to read today, let me have some fun.

    Also your friend knew very well that the estimated delivery date is a moving target, and he also knew that the least expensive trims will come at the tail end of ramp up .... pretty clear to me that it could take some time.

    BTW, why is your disappointed friend simply not go and get FWD Bolt with the same range and almost as fast acceleration?
    Last edited by mxs; 01-16-2018 at 10:55 AM.

  6. #2046

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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    BTW, why is your disappointed friend simply not go and get FWD Bolt with the same range and almost as fast acceleration?
    Because image. Tesla is still kicking chevy's *** in the prestige game.

  7. #2047

    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    A bit of news, hopefully will help to grow the infrustructure ... https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2018/...-vehicles.html

  8. #2048

    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreyGhost View Post
    Tesla could easily make them and deliver cars in the order deposits were received, but they have chosen not to because the upgrade generates so much profit(or possibly brings them back closer to break even as they would probably lose a lot on the cheap car).
    As someone who works in manufacturing let me just explain that the biggest killer to production and therefore profit next to having the line go down due to lack of materials is having the line go down to changeover. If the overall orders were for the higher trim then pumping them out makes business sense in 2 cases.

    I would actually have to see the assembly plant to know but i suspect their setup is not typical like a GM plant.

    For the record i supply parts to Tesla for the Model X so i have a bit of 'inside' knowledge on their methods.
    Last edited by Evoex; 01-16-2018 at 11:58 AM.
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  9. #2049
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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreyGhost View Post
    Because image. Tesla is still kicking chevy's *** in the prestige game.
    Sure, the same way BMW and all the other countless upscale brands are as well.

    But GM alone dwarfs BMW's sales numbers by around 5 times, but for one example. The same can be said for most of the mainstream automakers when compared to *any* prestige brand.

    The average consumer buys a car based on price, appearance, and then function, usually in that order, with the last 2 sometimes interchanged based on desires. Cachet is reserved for the luxury "deep pocketed" consumers which is a much smaller market.

    The Big3 have a bigger market, simply put, and will by that logic alone sell more vehicles.

    Quote Originally Posted by mxs View Post
    A bit of news, hopefully will help to grow the infrustructure ... https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2018/...-vehicles.html
    Awesome news - I just sent it to my wife - this could be the impetus her employer needs to get that L2 charger installed at work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny S
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  10. #2050

    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    I thought you will like it ...

  11. #2051
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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    I would like to feel hopeful about this with my work but the Facilities manager here seems incredibly stubborn and unwilling.

    Complete ******** considering it's a Regional/Government building and they plug all sorts of large vehicles into the wall for their block heaters n crap.

    Not to mention all of the money they spent on Hybrid fleet vehicles.
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  12. #2052
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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowbird View Post
    Complete ******** considering it's a Regional/Government building and they plug all sorts of large vehicles into the wall for their block heaters n crap.
    If there's one thing I know about government it's that there's always another manger higher up somewhere than the last, seemingly ad infinitum.

    Quietly send it to your bosses boss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny S
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  13. #2053
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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    I already asked my chief who then forwarded it to their chief. I've followed the chain of command and don't really wanna overstep my bounds too much.

    But I'll give it more thought
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  14. #2054

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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    I had to kill some time at a GM dealership today. Interesting chat with the service guy and a salesman. They got 5 Volts in and 4 are gone. I could have gone for the one in the showroom but the price would have to drop another 5 - 6 thousand for it to make dollar sense.

    The service guy has driven one a fair bit and the Volt is the better choice in his opinion right now due to the ICE backup.

    He sees the rate of advancement in EV ramping up but not so much in ICE.




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    Last edited by nobbie48; Today at 08:22 PM.

  15. #2055
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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Cool. Did the salesman seem knowledgeable about it, or was it the typical EV experience that many of us experience where you probably know more about the car from what you've read here and elsewhere online than the saleman?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny S
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  16. #2056

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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post
    Cool. Did the salesman seem knowledgeable about it, or was it the typical EV experience that many of us experience where you probably know more about the car from what you've read here and elsewhere online than the saleman?
    I spent more time with the service rep who really liked driving the things but he is aware of the bell curve of knowledge being in the steep climb mode. The infrastructure issue came up and people that think we could melt the ICE by 2025 don't understand the enormity of the problem. The way I read him was he felt there should be also more recharge capability options within the car.

    I would have thought that the batteries could be charged on the highway where the ICE has some brownie points and then use watts in the city where ICE is less efficient and more polluting.

    Getting service means from the dealer. It would be interesting to know how many independent mechanics are cramming info on the beasts and how many have no feel for the sparkies and don't want to train up.

    The pro electric owners in this thread have embraced EV's and one can see they have studied manuals and researched option with a goal of maximizing performance.

    A lot of drivers can't or don't want to think. The ICE is easy. Get in and drive. Stop and put in stinky stuff. Go to garage when funny light on dash comes on. Repeat. Thinking not required.

    Required thinking list:

    Plug it in princess. Yes your hands may touch a mechanical device.

    A 120 volt charge isn't as good as a 240 volt charge but beggars can't be choosers.

  17. #2057
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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by nobbie48 View Post
    The way I read him was he felt there should be also more recharge capability options within the car.

    I would have thought that the batteries could be charged on the highway where the ICE has some brownie points and then use watts in the city where ICE is less efficient and more polluting.
    Most EV's have an option for both of those scenarios.

    - You CAN charge the battery from the engine, but again, those pesky laws of thermodynamics means that it's a very inefficient process on any EV capable of doing it...but put any model Volt with a depleted battery into mountain mode and the ICE will recharge the battery back to the 30% mark so you can use it down the road. I don't think any EV has an option to completely recharge the battery using the range extender as it would be a very lossy process.

    The Volt (at least the 2013 and newer) also has a "Hold Mode" where the car will immediately start running on ICE and hold the battery charge for later if you want. THIS is far preferential to depleting the battery and then using the ICE later to recharge it again, and it's designed for the exact scenario you list above.

    If he didn't explain both of those scenarios to you, then he might not have known the car as well as he thinks he did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny S
    My other car is a reservation. Tesla Model 3

  18. #2058

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    Re: Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post

    If he didn't explain both of those scenarios to you, then he might not have known the car as well as he thinks he did.
    More like I wasn't clued into the subject. He did mention the hold mode.

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