Cheapest Insurance for 50 year old dad and 17 year old son

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum here and just had a question about insurance. So my dad is 50 years old and I am 17, we are looking at getting a new bike for the new riding season. We are looking at dual sports and sport bikes primarily, such as the CBR600RR or a similarly classed dual sport like the KTM 690 Enduro R. Before you get on me for being 17 and looking at bikes like these, the bike will be the only one in our household and is primarily for my dad to ride. I would get it on the odd weekend here and there. I have over a year of street riding experience on a 2007 XT225 (yes I am aware this is a significantly less powerful bike) and also have a lot of dirt bike experience (on 450s) so I feel I'm up to the task of riding something with a little more power.

Both my dad and I got our M1 in September of 2015, did the safety course together, and then both got our M2 in December 2015. I will be turning 18 in May. My record is clean and my dad has one or two speeding tickets on his record (car).

Anyways, the question is: What company will offer the cheapest insurance for our situation?
Also, should we just wait until I'm 18 to get another bike? I've heard rates can drop after you turn 18. Also feel free to suggest possible bikes that would be cheaper on insurance compared to others, we haven't decided on a bike yet. No 250s though, like I said earlier we are looking at a more powerful bike. Thanks in advance!

Probably best to just find the best rate for your dad (likely with his current provider for car/home insurance) then seeing if the company will add you as a secondary driver.

Yeah that's one idea, I think we tried that before with our XT225 though, and I don't think our current company offers bike insurance. We went with Aviva, the rate was very reasonable at $1100/year, but I've heard that recently they changed their policy and now you need to have 4 or more years of riding experience before they insure you on a supersport? Can anyone confirm?

You are both zero experience riders in the eye of insurance companies. It's doubtful either of you will even be able to find an insurance company willing to write a policy on a supersport of any sort, and your dads less than spotless record won't help that.

You won't be able to just insure it under his name and then "borrow" it either - insurance companies are wise to that scenario.

I hate to be blunt, but there is not going to be any "cheap" option for either of you. Your father may be able to find sorta affordable insurance (depending on what you consider "affordable") if he settles on a more realistic bike in the cruiser class, but those tickets are still going to count against him.

For yourself, stick with the 250 you have experience with, but even that (at 18 isn't going to be cheap assuming you're insuring it legally under your name, not misrepresenting things by insuring it under your dad and then "borrowing" it, which again, can end badly - Google the term "Material misrepresentation".

Age 18 vs 17 won't make any difference for MC insurance - 25 will help a little, but the bigger breaks don't arrive for the SS market until age 30 assuming you have 5+ years of full M experience and a clean record.

Like I mentioned in my first post, the bike is primarily for my dad's use and I would only ride the bike occasionally. I am not misrepresenting my situation or committing fraud of any sort, although I can see why you would think that as there are many young riders I see here trying to get away with something like that.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So it looks like dual sports are our only realistic option then? From what I've heard they're relatively cheap to insure. Or would a sporty bike like an SV650 be a reasonable idea as well?

MicSpartan said:

Like I mentioned in my first post, the bike is primarily for my dad's use and I would only ride the bike occasionally. I am not misrepresenting my situation or committing fraud of any sort, although I can see why you would think that as there are many young riders I see here trying to get away with something like that.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So it looks like dual sports are our only realistic option then? From what I've heard they're relatively cheap to insure. Or would a sporty bike like an SV650 be a reasonable idea as well?

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Outside of GTA, just got my M2 and the insurance for the SV650 would have been more than the price of the bike (~$2400 range). Add your car and it's easily $3000 range

What are your details if you don't mind me asking? (Age, driver's record, etc.) And is it a one bike-one rider policy or is your situation similar to mine?

MicSpartan said:

What are your details if you don't mind me asking? (Age, driver's record, etc.) And is it a one bike-one rider policy or is your situation similar to mine?

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Not in a similar situation. The $2400 range was a one bike policy with car discount. I'm 24, G license and clean driving record so far.

Get something small

Already done the small bikes man, and now that my dad's riding skills are coming back he's definitely looking at something more powerful. What company are you insured with?

MicSpartan said:

Like I mentioned in my first post, the bike is primarily for my dad's use and I would only ride the bike occasionally. I am not misrepresenting my situation

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If you both live at the same address and both hold motorcycle licences you will have two options - either you will need to be included on the policy, or you will need to be legally excluded from operating the bike at all.

So, yes...assuming again you still live at home, riding the bike (even occasionally) if it's solely insured under your dads name (and you are excluded) is indeed misrepresenting the situation. If, in this situation, you get in a wreck or need the insurance in some fashion they can and quite likely will deny the claim based on material misrepresentation since you should have been listed on the policy if you were operating the motorcycle at all.

This comes up all the time. It's the exact same reason that any G2 or higher licenced driver living in the same household (basically, a child) without a car and policy of their own must be listed on their parents insurance policy at additional cost. The same applies for a motorcycle if you also hold a valid licence to operate it.

It's only when you live at a different address than the person who owns the vehicle can you then legally "lend" it to someone else, but again, there are limits on that - insurance companies are again wise to the "My dad owns the bike and it's insured at his house, but he doesn't actually ride the bike, I do" scenarios. Just last year there was an insurance co rep here who mentioned it was his job in the past to discover these situations (IE, the 70 year old who suddenly and mysteriously owns and insures a 'Busa that in reality his 25 year old grandson is actually riding) and cancelling those policies.

In short, it's all fine and dandy until you actually need the insurance...then, good luck.

As for what non-SS bikes will cost, well, again, you both have a lot going against you on several fronts so I'm still not confident the word "Cheap" is even going to be in the dictionary, but your best bet is to pick a few bikes that interest you across a bit of a variety of size and genres and then simply get on the phone and call around. Your best bet is brokerages that have a lot of underwriters available to them as they can shop around your particular combination and situation.

What is your budget for insurance, again, knowing that you will *both* need to be on the policy even on a single bike?

Whatever you do, honestly...forget the supersport dream for the next few years unless your combined insurance budget is in the $1000/month range.

If you are both licensed under the same address, the higher risk rider is where the rate will be based on. Even a husband and wife of ages on either side of 30, with one bike will pay the higher premium unless the higher one is excluded from the policy....or that's the way it was. Don't see the industry changing that against their favor.

I apologize, I didn't make this clear in my posts and now see your confusion. Yes I do live in the same household and I fully intend on being listed as a secondary rider on the policy as I was with the XT225. Sorry for the mislead.

As I said earlier, the rate for that policy with Aviva with my dad as the primary and myself as the occasional, both with fresh M2 licenses, was only $1100/year which I think was an excellent rate. Now that we are looking at a more powerful bike, obviously our budget is larger, around maybe $2000 to $3000 for the right bike. $1000 a month for dad as the primary and me as the occasional sounds unbelievably high though, are you sure that's what most companies will charge? Keep in mind we've only done a few online quotes and will be calling around on the weekend.

Obviously I figured that supersports had higher insurance rates compared to your average bike but this is just atrocious. Hell, I have my own sports car and pay less than $3000 a year for full coverage (no, mommy and daddy don't pay for my car before you call me spoiled haha). If this is the case then yeah, I suppose we will have to look at other options. Any suggestions for bikes around 600cc that might be within the 2-3k range for insurance for our situation?

Good to hear you're going in eyes wide open, and now is the time to do it, but a few things:

1- Forget the online quotes, they're seldom worth the time. Get on the phone and start calling around to as many places as you can find. Brokers are where to start, and the forum has a few insurance co sponsors as well which you should try in addition.

2- As Riceburner mentioned, even if you are the secondary rider on the bike the cost will be calculated on the stats of the higher risk operator, and that's you. Quotes of $1000+/month are not out of the ordinary for a 17 year old newly licenced M2 rider on a high performance bike, and that's again if you can even find an underwriter willing to write the policy, many will simply tell you there's no market for your business, have a nice day.

As for what bike to ultimately settle on, there's people here with far more knowledge than I in that respect, but the one thing I can safely say is what I mentioned earlier - forget about the supersport, and the sport market in general may even be tough for you simply because of the age factors. The adventure bike or cruiser market would be where I'd point you to personally, but again, wait for others to chime in.

Again, apologies if I'm coming across as blunt, but reality is what it is.

Hey man, no need to apologize at all, better to be blunt than sugarcoat it. I appreciate all the info you've given me, it's my first day on the forum and I can already see I made a good choice to become a part of this community. Thanks for not talking down to me due to my age.

Yeah it looks like we're gonna have to look at non-sport options if what you're saying is true, and the more I think about it the more I believe it. The GTA area really does kill you with vehicle insurance. Do you reckon a KTM 690 Enduro R would be any easier on the wallet? It is a dual sport, and is also a favorite of ours so if we can feasibly own one of those I think dad and I will be just as happy. Also, where can I contact these insurance company sponsors? Will I just see them around on the forums or is there someone I should PM or something?

MicSpartan said:

Hey man, no need to apologize at all, better to be blunt than sugarcoat it. I appreciate all the info you've given me.

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A refreshing situation. Around this time of year and for a lot of the summer there's a lot of younger riders who show up and want to immediately jump to a SS/litre bike but just don't want to hear (or listen to) the realities when they're laid out here.

As much as I know it's probably shattering some dreams (I was 17 once as well, long long ago), like I said...it is what it is. I was paying $400+/month for my sport bike back in the early 90's and things have just gone downhill in the sportbike market since then as the reality is that it's a high risk and high claim market, and the insurance companies have now priced it as such.

By all means call around and get the quotes anyways just to confirm the situation, but trust me, it's going to be a bloodbath if the bike is a supersport or there's an "R" or "RR" in the sport bike model designator.

As for the other bike options, again, I'll let others comment on that.

The forum insurance sponsors should be listed in the insurance forum somewhere I believe, but if not you'll see them in some of the other threads in this forum. It's also important to keep your horizons broad however, so do call some brokers as well like Dalton Timmis and Riders Plus, amongst others. Again, other members will hopefully chime in with more suggestions.

Hey, riding any motorcycle is a dream for me! I've been waiting to ride on the street since I first started riding dirt bikes as a kid, I can wait another 10 years for a supersport no sweat. I'll give those companies you recommended a call then, as well as get in touch with some experts here on the forums. Let's see what happens. As much as I'd like a more powerful bike, if the insurance is too hefty honestly I'd be happy with the XT225 back if that's what the reality is. Not sure if dad will be as willing though haha! Thanks for all your help PrivatePilot.

Anyone else, please feel free to shoot bike suggestions at me! Again, something more powerful in the 600cc range would be ideal but if insuring those bikes at a reasonable rate (2-3k a year) is impossible, feel free to tell me that too.

Lots of capable bike that perform as well as SS on the street without being a SS.

Such as?

What about the Yamaha FZ 07?