New U.S. tariff on imported motorcycles ? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

New U.S. tariff on imported motorcycles ?

Also remember that the US are part of the WTO and as such are limited on how much duty they can impose on anything.

Trump seems to think (and talks as if) pesky little things like trade agreements don't apply to the USA anymore. Heck, even the US constitution itself doesn't seem to matter a whole lot to him based on what he's said so far.
 
But - mostly - they HAVE benefitted regular people.

If you work for a company that sells products outside Canada, you have benefitted.

If you are able to buy something from outside Canada that is not available from a Canadian source or is less expensive when imported, you have benefitted.

If the company that you work for is able to sell its products more competitively because it is buying parts from elsewhere in the world, you have benefitted.

If the company you work for is able to reduce cost by making higher production volume by being able to supply customers worldwide, you have benefitted.

If you are able to buy a product for lower cost because a company was able to build worldwide production in one place (whether here or elsewhere), you have benefitted.

One of my customers, for example, specialises in making certain engine parts for the automotive industry. They are a Canadian company. They have plants elsewhere in the world. They have, for example, a line running here in Canada that makes parts for a certain engine family that is sold worldwide - by a company that has a European nameplate but assembly plants all over the world.

My van had final assembly in Mexico from bodyshell parts that were stamped in Italy with a transmission assembled in the USA which contains parts that came from Canada (and elsewhere) and an engine assembled in Mexico from parts that came from Mexico, the USA, and Canada. A customer of mine (Canadian) builds the oil pumps for those engines.

If you buy a BMW SUV it's assembled in Spartanburg USA with bodyshell parts from a nearby Magna plant (you might have heard of that company), and it contains a German-designed but American-built ZF transmission that contains parts made in Canada. If you buy a later-model Chrysler with the cousin of that transmission, it's assembled at a different American plant but it contains some of the same internal bits and pieces that were made in Canada.

This is how the auto industry works nowadays.

uh huh....globalization has decimated manufacturing in Canada...but hey !! now we can all buy made in china crap at walmart for cheap ...woohoo !
 
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Mark Hamill is reading some of Trump's more outrageous Tweets in the voice of the Joker (from the Batman animated series). There are two readings available at the moment and it's probably the best satire of "The Donald" so far. May we live in interesting times. Apologies for the thread jack.

for you futurama fans billy west reads some of trumpfs quotes as Zapp Branigan....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=406KqNDgKuI
 
uh huh....globalization has decimated manufacturing in Canada...but hey now we can all buy made in china crap at walmart for cheap ...woohoo !

Then why have I been working full tilt for the last several years with a full and backlogged appointment calendar (my customers are all Canadian manufacturing plants)? And why are many of those same plants having a hard time finding enough good people to do the work available?

Everybody that is involved in building tooling for the automotive industry and who is any good, has been swamped for the last few years.

Honda just announced that they're spending something like $400 million to upgrade Alliston. And that's public knowledge. (there's a lot that I can't talk about due to NDAs)
 
uh huh....globalization has decimated manufacturing in Canada...but hey now we can all buy made in china crap at walmart for cheap ...woohoo !

If you were one of the people who lost your job as a result, the picture isn't so rosy.

For the rest of society who haven't been effected, the less expensive products have had a net benefit, however.

That's the part that the "China is killing our jobs!" people like to conveniently forget - they WANT stuff to be cheap & affordable. They NEED stuff to be cheap. They now EXPECT it. They will spend hours shopping and comparing prices to find the cheapest possible option before parting with their money.

So, say we bring a plant back from China. Lets use small appliances as an example.

A few thousand people get jobs again, but the product on the shelf that the millions need and want, well, that product now costs a lot more, so to benefit a relative few people, millions of others are "harmed". And then the domino effect starts - all the people involved in the logistics of moving that product across the globe and into the stores are also affected, so a few thousand people have jobs again in that manufacturing plant in Canada or the USA, but a few thousand others lose their jobs in the logistics industry.

See....trade isn't as simple as some would like to believe it is. There's a much bigger picture that the "China is killing our jobs!" people aren't aware of, or like to simply gloss over.

Reality isn't what it was in the 50's or 60's anymore, and anyone who thinks the solution is to try to rewind back to that era, well, good luck with that.
 
Then why have I been working full tilt for the last several years with a full and backlogged appointment calendar (my customers are all Canadian manufacturing plants)? And why are many of those same plants having a hard time finding enough good people to do the work available?

Everybody that is involved in building tooling for the automotive industry and who is any good, has been swamped for the last few years.

Honda just announced that they're spending something like $400 million to upgrade Alliston. And that's public knowledge. (there's a lot that I can't talk about due to NDAs)

you probably wouldnt have a job if the government didnt subsidize the auto industry...how much did wynne give honda for the alliston expansion ? i think around $100 million ??
 
If you were one of the people who lost your job as a result, the picture isn't so rosy.

For the rest of society who haven't been effected, the less expensive products have had a net benefit, however.

That's the part that the "China is killing our jobs!" people like to conveniently forget - they WANT stuff to be cheap & affordable. They NEED stuff to be cheap. They now EXPECT it. They will spend hours shopping and comparing prices to find the cheapest possible option before parting with their money.

So, say we bring a plant back from China. Lets use small appliances as an example.

A few thousand people get jobs again, but the product on the shelf that the millions need and want, well, that product now costs a lot more, so to benefit a relative few people, millions of others are "harmed". And then the domino effect starts - all the people involved in the logistics of moving that product across the globe and into the stores are also affected, so a few thousand people have jobs again in that manufacturing plant in Canada or the USA, but a few thousand others lose their jobs in the logistics industry.

See....trade isn't as simple as some would like to believe it is. There's a much bigger picture that the "China is killing our jobs!" people aren't aware of, or like to simply gloss over.

Reality isn't what it was in the 50's or 60's anymore, and anyone who thinks the solution is to try to rewind back to that era, well, good luck with that.

so by your logic ...the more good paying jobs we outsource, the cheaper goods will become and the more the economy will grow...that makes sense??
 
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you probably wouldnt have a job if the government didnt subsidize the auto industry...how much did wynne give honda for the alliston expansion ? i think around $100 million ??

About $40 million, and the federal gov't kicked in another $40 million.

It is a reality of this industry that tax breaks are given for plants to locate within certain jurisdictions. If Ontario/Canada hadn't done that then Indiana would have, or maybe Ohio would have, and that would have been our loss.

How many people work at Honda in Alliston? How many people work for all of their Tier 1 suppliers (it's a much bigger number than the number that work at the plant itself)? How many people work for the suppliers of *those* plants (disclosure: I'm in that position)? How much tax do all of *those* people pay?

The governments will get their investment back, in the form of taxes, in a pretty short time.
 
You have to ask yourself what the U.S. has to lose by de-facto outlawing the sale of European bikes. The jobs they create are mainly low-paying retail work in stores that are always going bankrupt. Few parts are produced for them in the U.S., and if people can't get a KTM, they'll just buy a Kawasaki. So really losing them will be a non-event.

I think the more significant factor is what this means for the future. I see this as a precursor to tariffs against European cars that have flooded into North America with only a few token assembly plants. I don't think anyone in the U.S. really cares what they mean to BMW in terms of market share, they're only interested in "What do we get for letting Europeans sell here?" If the answer is nothing, then the deal is off. I can't say I blame them. The U.S. is the biggest and richest consumer market in the world. I think they're tired of sharing that market with people who give nothing in return.
 
The US is nowhere near the biggest consumer market even tho they are temporarily the biggest GDP - there is nothing like the growth that will occur in China and India.
The larger European market is bigger than the US as well.

With the hollowing out of he middle class and expansion of the working poor ....the US is just a haven for predatory corporations in health and weapons...the action for consumer products is elsewhere.
 
I think the more significant factor is what this means for the future. I see this as a precursor to tariffs against European cars that have flooded into North America with only a few token assembly plants. I don't think anyone in the U.S. really cares what they mean to BMW in terms of market share, they're only interested in "What do we get for letting Europeans sell here?"

Ford sold over 75,000 vehicles in Europe last year.

Yes, European cars sold in higher numbers in NA, but a kneejerk tariff done without much thought, well, you want to believe Europe will be quick to return the favor and place a nice tariff on those 75,000 vehicles Ford is sending their way.

I'm not saying that the numbers aren't still lopsided and something could be done, but kneejerk "tax them!" reactions in the short term (vs a long term approach that might offer alternatives) will backfire in short order.
 
Ford sold over 75,000 vehicles in Europe last year.

Yes, European cars sold in higher numbers in NA, but a kneejerk tariff done without much thought, well, you want to believe Europe will be quick to return the favor and place a nice tariff on those 75,000 vehicles Ford is sending their way.

I'm not saying that the numbers aren't still lopsided and something could be done, but kneejerk "tax them!" reactions in the short term (vs a long term approach that might offer alternatives) will backfire in short order.

Ford in Europe is different than here. Same goes for GM, when Trump says that GM doesn't sell NA cars in Europe that's not true.
GM owns Opel and manufactures parts etc. for them here. Same goes for Ford.
So although not many finished products (cars) are exported there, parts & engines are.
 
"And if people can't get a KTM, they'll just buy a Kawasaki. So really losing them will be a non-event."

Not happily they won't. The Europeans make the only highly competitive enduro bikes, don't look to Japan. Try hitting an Offroad Ontario race day, nearly every bike there is ktm, husky or beta/gas gas.
None of those guys wants an mx bike from Japan.
It's like placing a 100% tariff on Harley with the thought that Harley owners will "just buy sportbikes".

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there may be an upside for Canada in Americans shopping here more than they do now.

More likely the opposite. At 1/10th the population of the US, our relatively affordable foreign imports are largely a result benefiting from the large volume of imports into the US. If big US tariffs slow that down, imports to Canada will be proportionately more expensive. Those products that then can't compete, will be dropped. Others will get more expensive.

Just as a comparison, I checked the base price of a BMW S1000XR in the UK, US & Canada:

UK - 13,795 pounds = Cdn$22,250
USA - $16,445 = Cdn$21,510
Canada - $17,700

Companies charge what they think each market can bare, so long as they can still make a profit. If US tariffs make European bikes much less competitive, numbers will reduce and import costs will go up accordingly. As Canada has the lowest margin, we will get hit the worst.
 
More likely the opposite. At 1/10th the population of the US, our relatively affordable foreign imports are largely a result benefiting from the large volume of imports into the US. If big US tariffs slow that down, imports to Canada will be proportionately more expensive. Those products that then can't compete, will be dropped. Others will get more expensive.

Just as a comparison, I checked the base price of a BMW S1000XR in the UK, US & Canada:

UK - 13,795 pounds = Cdn$22,250
USA - $16,445 = Cdn$21,510
Canada - $17,700

Companies charge what they think each market can bare, so long as they can still make a profit. If US tariffs make European bikes much less competitive, numbers will reduce and import costs will go up accordingly. As Canada has the lowest margin, we will get hit the worst.
I completely agree. Us tariffs on euro bikes will definitely hurt us here.

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