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Thread: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

  1. #141
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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JavaFan View Post
    interesting discussion...
    there is a duty to disclose all evidence to the defendant

    this was publicized in the Commission into the wrongful prosecution of Guy Paul Morin
    of course it was DNA evidence that acquitted him
    but the report was very critical of Durham Police for squashing evidence that would have benefited the defendant
    But, as has already been stated, video that may or may not exist on a cell phone is not "evidence" unless it is actually entered as such in court.

    In the situation above, evidence that comes to light after the trial has to be brought in following proper procedures in the courtroom.

    If the original poster wanted to make use of what may or may not have been on that video then it should have been brought into evidence way back before the first trial. It should have been requested, and the process should have been followed BACK THEN. Now, as mentioned, there are plenty of reasons why that video may not exist, or its existence can be legitimately denied, or could be declared inadmissible, or who knows what.

    Besides, there is a fair chance that even if that video did turn up, what it shows might not necessarily be in the original poster's interest. Unless it shows that the original poster was fully in compliance with all applicable laws including never exceeding the speed limit, it's probably not in the original poster's interest. If the original poster was fully in compliance with all applicable laws, there wouldn't have been motivation for the officer to pull the rider over in the first place. Yeah, sure, the cops can make random stops, they don't need probable cause, this is Canada, not USA. But such stops generally don't involve forcibly separating people from their vehicles. Just my opinion - We haven't heard the whole story here ...

  2. #142
    Moderator Rob MacLennan's Avatar
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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaFan View Post
    interesting discussion...
    there is a duty to disclose all evidence to the defendant

    this was publicized in the Commission into the wrongful prosecution of Guy Paul Morin
    of course it was DNA evidence that acquitted him
    but the report was very critical of Durham Police for squashing evidence that would have benefited the defendant
    The Crown has a duty to disclose exculpatory evidence, or evidence upon which they intend to rely in order to prosecute. Nothing more.
    http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

    "Only in concealing one's identity, can one truly be known. (Whatcha!)" - Brother Silence, "The Gamers: Dorkness Rising"

  3. #143

    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    okay...carry on

    edit: but then again no
    I'm right, but don't feel like an internet argument

    The Crown must disclose all materials and information that is in its possession or control that is not clearly irrelevant, regardless of if the evidence is to be called at trial or is inculpatory or exculpatory


    http://criminalnotebook.ca/index.php/Crown_Duty_to_Disclose

    Last edited by JavaFan; 01-13-2018 at 07:10 PM.

  4. #144
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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    Video that may or may not have been on the officer's private cell phone might never be in the Crown's "possession or control" ... The Crown prosecutor wouldn't know of the existence of something on the officer's private cell phone ... unless it was pointed out to them ... and the time to point that out, was at the time of officially requesting disclosure a year ago, not now! Now they can just deny that any such thing ever existed and you'll never be able to prove otherwise.

  5. #145

    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    The Crown has an obligation to obtain from an investigative agency any relevant information that it is aware of and must "take reasonable step to inquire about ...relevant information".[10]
    The duty to make disclosure creates a duty upon the crown to obtain the disclosure from the police and, likewise, the police have a corresponding duty to provide disclosure to the crown. [11]
    These obligations are jointly held by both Crown and police

  6. #146

    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    in advance a possible rebuttal Rob
    I really don't want to argue

    and I'm not referring to the specifics of the video
    more to the general discussion that began earlier
    of the obligation to disclose

    OP is obviously well beyond any discussions of disclosure
    cheers man

  7. #147
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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    I think we all agree that the time to discuss video that may or may not have been on the officer's cell phone at some point in time was a year ago, not now.

  8. #148
    Moderator Rob MacLennan's Avatar
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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaFan View Post
    in advance a possible rebuttal Rob
    I really don't want to argue

    and I'm not referring to the specifics of the video
    more to the general discussion that began earlier
    of the obligation to disclose

    OP is obviously well beyond any discussions of disclosure
    cheers man
    With respect to your previous comment about Guy Paul Moran the judgment stated that the police cannot withhold evidence from disclosure which may tend to support the accused's case (ie. exculpatory evidence). Yes, it also stated that the police cannot withhold such evidences either. If the evidence does not point to the accused's innocence or is evidence against the accused, upon which The Crown does not choose to rely upon at trial, then they have no duty to provide it. For example if they have 14 eye witnesses and a security video tape all stating that the accused performed a crime and they decide that they don't need the tape, because of the actual live witnesses, then they don't have to provide the defence with the tape.
    http://www.morallyambiguous.net/

    "Only in concealing one's identity, can one truly be known. (Whatcha!)" - Brother Silence, "The Gamers: Dorkness Rising"

  9. #149

    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    at this point you're arguing with the Criminal Code, so carry on....I'm out

  10. #150
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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan View Post
    With respect to your previous comment about Guy Paul Moran the judgment stated that the police cannot withhold evidence from disclosure which may tend to support the accused's case (ie. exculpatory evidence). Yes, it also stated that the police cannot withhold such evidences either. If the evidence does not point to the accused's innocence or is evidence against the accused, upon which The Crown does not choose to rely upon at trial, then they have no duty to provide it. For example if they have 14 eye witnesses and a security video tape all stating that the accused performed a crime and they decide that they don't need the tape, because of the actual live witnesses, then they don't have to provide the defence with the tape.
    if I remember this correctly, a neighbour reported hearing a girl screaming and kn
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  11. #151

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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    Life isn't baseball. You don't get three strikes every time at bat. Hedo, RM and others have given a tough love recap of what is likely to happen.

    Even if it was baseball:

    Strike 1, you did something to attract a cop.

    Strike 2, you didn't have insurance.

    Strike 3, you've been playing the system hoping for the ump to allow you a strike 4

    OP says he's realized the error of his ways but doesn't seem to want to apply what he's learned to the case in hand. Trying to weasel out of the charges and avoiding the consequences of his actions isn't going to impress the court.

  12. #152
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    Re: Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by nobbie48 View Post
    Strike 1, you did something to attract a cop.
    I can't help but wonder what he did to attract the cop's attention for the cop to have enough time to whip out a cell phone and start recording - on top of that, physically removing OP off his bike...

    One would think you would try to not attract attention when riding dirty.

    Although it is a terrible idea to reveal what it is you did on a public forum, please feel free if you want to dig yourself into a deeper hole...

    PS. Good luck with your case.
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