Road Tolls coming to Toronto | GTAMotorcycle.com

Road Tolls coming to Toronto

Another reason to stay away from Toronto.
 
One of the few things i disliked about the maritimes...tolls everywhere
 
Political suicide. You can't expect people to accept tolls without:

- some perceived benefit
- a viable alternative

For any perceived benefit to occur, these roads will have to move noticeably faster than prior to being tolled. As transit is not keeping up with population growth, the only way traffic will get lighter is if its off loaded to local streets. This is a lose/lose. Toll will have to be high enough to force people off or payers will complain because they see no benefit and everyone else will complain because local traffic will get worse. Tolling a new road (like the 407) increases capacity and offers a faster alternative to those who are prepared to pay & to put up with the draconian billing practices. Tolling an existing road just screws everyone.

Even when the Eglinton LRT line is open, this is just a minor improvement over the buses that used to service that route. This will not be enough to cover growth let alone act as an alternative to these toll roads. And local and arterial roads are already choked, so they aren't a viable alternative.

At least motorcyclists aren't alone in this fight. It affects everyone. Give it 6 months and hopefully this will quietly fade away.
 
Face said:
Give it 6 months and hopefully this will quietly fade away.
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Normally, I would agree. However, I feel like the media is slowing trying to acclimate us to the idea. I've seen a number of articles over the past few years regarding this issue, from it's study to it's consideration to it's endorsement. I'm afraid this one is too tempting a revenue generator to pass up. Even if it fades away it's bound to come up again. I think it's worthwhile to make the city aware of the smaller footprint of motorcycles and scooters...just in case.
 
clutch said:
Normally, I would agree. However, I feel like the media is slowing trying to acclimate us to the idea. I've seen a number of articles over the past few years regarding this issue, from it's study to it's consideration to it's endorsement. I'm afraid this one is too tempting a revenue generator to pass up. Even if it fades away it's bound to come up again. I think it's worthwhile to make the city aware of the smaller footprint of motorcycles and scooters...just in case.
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I agree with @clutch
It has certainly picked up in recent days and the issue will certainly come again in case it dies down now. Having said that, what I have seen being practices elsewhere is the scooters and motorcycles don't have to pay toll. Also, I have seen them in geographies where two wheelers can be ridden almost all around the year.
Canada, having a limited two-wheeler season, and a much much smaller 2-wheeler footprint might get the benefit of the toll being exempt.
 
Goku said:
I agree with @clutch
It has certainly picked up in recent days and the issue will certainly come again in case it dies down now. Having said that, what I have seen being practices elsewhere is the scooters and motorcycles don't have to pay toll. Also, I have seen them in geographies where two wheelers can be ridden almost all around the year.
Canada, having a limited two-wheeler season, and a much much smaller 2-wheeler footprint might get the benefit of the toll being exempt.
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Like we get the benefit of HOV lane use? Oh wait....
 
I have a few problems with tolls.
First off, they will apply (to start) with the DVP and Gardiner.
Won't this just result with a lot more traffic on the nearby streets? We're Canadians so we tend to be a bit tight with our money.
Secondly, tax dollars went to build these roads in the first place. How can the government charge us twice for the same thing without it being fraud?
 
Goku said:
I agree with @clutch
It has certainly picked up in recent days and the issue will certainly come again in case it dies down now. Having said that, what I have seen being practices elsewhere is the scooters and motorcycles don't have to pay toll. Also, I have seen them in geographies where two wheelers can be ridden almost all around the year.
Canada, having a limited two-wheeler season, and a much much smaller 2-wheeler footprint might get the benefit of the toll being exempt.
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Apathy will be the biggest factor to approval. If too many people react, City Councillors will read the writing on the wall.

Motorcycles aren't exempt from 407 tolls, so I seriously doubt they would be exempt from Gardiner/DVP tolls. I would expect they would use the same system, maybe even contract out management/collection to them.
 
statsman said:
I have a few problems with tolls.
First off, they will apply (to start) with the DVP and Gardiner.
Won't this just result with a lot more traffic on the nearby streets? We're Canadians so we tend to be a bit tight with our money.
Secondly, tax dollars went to build these roads in the first place. How can the government charge us twice for the same thing without it being fraud?
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Because they can get away with it & not be thrown in prison.

Look at the 407
 
It will cost and him and the provincial Liberals next time around .... the pile of bad things is growing fast in this province and in most cases the politicians don't seem to know what are they doing.

The article is lean on detail .... is he talking about all lanes going toll?? If so ... wow ... I am glad I don't live there, but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

It's a one thing to add new lanes and call them HOV (and charge for them, or like 407), which basically 410 expansion will become. Actually there they are adding two lanes each direction ... one HOV and one general purpose. If Tory wants to basically make people to pay to go slow (these are parking lots, and have been so for a while, most of the useful time during a week).

The guy has guts, I'll give him that, but I doubt he has a clue how to run efficient and affordable transportation system. He had big words during his campaign for everyone, but I don't remember hearing about this marvelous idea. I guess it just materialized, somehow ...
 
mxs said:
It will cost and him and the provincial Liberals next time around ....
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My conspiracy alter ego (he's small) says this maybe intentionally planned for its effects as well. It's a great way to kick the prov liberals out next election. Put's Wynne of the spot of approving as she said she would earlier, and the cons can run against that.... all in time for the next election.


mxs said:
He had big words during his campaign for everyone, but I don't remember hearing about this marvelous idea. I guess it just materialized, somehow ...
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Another two-faced politician.
Tory once called road tolls ‘highway robbery’
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https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2016/11/23/torys-changing-position-on-road-tolls.html
 
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ON voters have a long history of letting politicians get away with bait and switch. Until people vote to hold politicians accountable for these actions and turf them, nothing will change.

Libtards from over 10 years ago did the bait and switch on a single large tax introduction, twice!... (introduced it after the pledge of no new taxes, pledged to remove it, then later decided not to remove it, can't make this crap up)
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/2114091-health-tax-stays-mcguinty
Still in office.
 
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Face said:
Apathy will be the biggest factor to approval. If too many people react, City Councillors will read the writing on the wall.

Motorcycles aren't exempt from 407 tolls, so I seriously doubt they would be exempt from Gardiner/DVP tolls. I would expect they would use the same system, maybe even contract out management/collection to them.
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At least all the Thursday 10pm motorcycle crashes going home high from L&L will occur on arterial routes rather than the DVP.
 
eljay said:
At least all the Thursday 10pm motorcycle crashes going home high from L&L will occur on arterial routes rather than the DVP.
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May actually increase with the "wheelie through the camera" crowd; any excuse to get er up... lol
 
kwtoxman said:
My conspiracy alter ego says maybe this was planned. It's a great way to kick the prov liberals out next election. Put's Wynne of the spot of approving as she said she would earlier, and the cons can run against that.... all in time for the next election.



Another two-faced politician.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2016/11/23/torys-changing-position-on-road-tolls.html
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He also reversed himself when he said the $1.8B three-stop subway extension was "barely justifyiable" and now he's backing a $3.2B one-stop extension in its place.

If there was a time to protest the tax hike, it was when these spending decisions were made (including M$500 to rebuild the Gardiner east of Jarvis that is under capacity 100% of the time).

People who want the big spendy things but don't want the bill? STFU.
 
kwtoxman said:
My conspiracy alter ego says maybe this was planned. It's a great way to kick the prov liberals out next election. Put's Wynne of the spot of approving as she said she would earlier, and the cons can run against that.... all in time for the next election.

Another two-faced politician.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2016/11/23/torys-changing-position-on-road-tolls.html
Click to expand...

I hate that the media is playing a BIG role in this by politicizing the whole thing.

Tory was (and probably still is) against tolling existing roads; BUT ***** has officially hit the fan, and (obviously) he sees no other way to increase revenue for the city and get people moving in and out of the city efficiently.

It's too late to make more transit: not that the trains and rails themselves are too costly, but *implementing* any sort of effective transit system is too costly because there is no SPACE for stuff to get built. That's why they chose to re-vamp and re-***** streetcars. Useless, slow-AF streetcars.

This is not about Tory or any agenda he has; this is about the city, and ANY other politician from ANY party or not who would be in his place would come to the same conclusions.

The only real, long-term solution will be for offices and businesses who employ people in the 905 to move out of the 416 and setup shop closer to the 'burbs, where most of their workforce comes from. Sadly, that will take decades.
 
Depending on price they will just shift traffic to non-tolled routes, residential streets and arteries. At a couple of dollars per day there will be a small but noticeable difference, as the cost goes higher a big difference. Taxation modifies behaviour, not always in the intended or good way (blasting down residential streets instead of shifting to transit like they "think" will happen). Hey look we "fixed' congestion.

Tolling people that live in Toronto that are already paying taxes in Toronto is just an example of paying your share for the same thing multiple times.

The money will not be used for these highways alone, so the guy who drives all around the city off highway does not pay, someone who has no choice but to take the DVP or Gardiner is now paying extra for the roads that other people are driving. Basically paying an extra user fee that goes to something they may not be using.

Just another example of a bad trend in taxation, hit one small group heavy so you do not anger everyone else. Maybe even get a little schadenfreude against that group of taxpayers going...

Better (and more fair), just raise the gas taxes province wide and keep the extra revenue in the general area it is generated AND USE IT FOR ROADS AND TRANSIT NOT HEALTHCARE OR HYDRO.... More you drive the more you pay, regardless of what street you take. GPS track electric cars so they pay their fair share.

Finally all the success stories of city tolls happen in cities with real transit systems, this is not Toronto.
 
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Kri$han said:
The only real, long-term solution will be for offices and businesses who employ people in the 905 to move out of the 416 and setup shop closer to the 'burbs, where most of their workforce comes from. Sadly, that will take decades.
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Self-driving cars should be an answer, when they can communicate among each other and navigate lane restrictions and merging fluidly etc etc. But probably 10-20 years off from having the majority of cars with that capability. And you'll only see that benefit when you have a majority...

Until then, maybe Toronto traffic will just suck. Fun fun fun
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