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Abs

last i heard, abs increases braking distance, dunno zip about current racebike stuff tho
 
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yodude said:
last i heard, abs increases braking distance, dunno zip about current racebike stuff tho
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IF you are good enough to go EXACTLY to the amount of brake pressure that is juuuust short of lockup or rear-wheel lift, and you can do so at an application rate that EXACTLY matches forward weight transfer, AND you can vary that amount of brake pressure instantly in response to changing friction conditions, AND you can do that without any practice when that car hangs a left directly in front of you, then yes, it is possible that you could out-brake a good ABS system by a small margin.

I'm not that good.

Note a keyword, a "good" ABS system. The old school ABS systems were only capable of switching between the rider-applied brake line pressure, and "off". Thus, the chattering, and poor brake lever feel, and yes, slightly increased braking distances over what is theoretically possible due to the finite time that the system takes to re-apply brake pressure after it detects that wheel rotation speed has recovered.

I have a bike with KIBS, which is capable of modulating brake pressure, instead of just switching it off or on. I've tried it out just to see what happens. There is no chattery feel. There is no reaction in the suspension. The bike just plain STOPS. NOW.

edit: And the one I have is now no longer the latest technology. The new cornering ABS systems that a number of bikes are using can optimize braking while leaned over. I think KTM was the first to use it in production but there are a number of other bikes using it now, including the new ZX10R and R1, and it looks like next year's cbr1000, and several european models although I don't think BMW is using it (yet).
 
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A wheel locked up is a wheel about to turn turtle.Most motorcycles will go further on their sides than rubber side down.I'm with Brian,every streetbike i ever own will have abs.My Wing has abs linked brakes and it has saved me twice for sure.Both times in the wet,fully loaded.
 
I rode my 2016 zx10 with abs this weekend. I completely forgot it had abs while trying out the new brakes. I used them as I normally would and didn't feel the abs kicking in. I wasn't trying to engage the abs but I was applying a good amount of pressure on the lever (as much as I was comfortable with in the conditions) and didn't feel like it increased my stopping distance. On the street I would have no issue using this abs system and might actually prefer it. When it comes time to race prep it in a week or two the abs will be in the scrap bin.
 
I think there's been a misunderstanding - I didn't realize that GL1200 was track only. No, ABS probably isn't worth much on Valencia
 
yodude said:
so wtf abs have to do with max braking?
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Clearly you're missing the point.

For the average rider who isn't a finely honed pro rider, the instinct in an emergency braking situation is to mash every available brake as hard as they can.

That will, of course, put you on your ***/head in very short order, possibly/likely making the situation worse, when the alternative (with ABS) is to avoid locking the wheels to begin with and either continuing to slow as much as possible before the impact (a braking tire decelerates the bike far faster vs footpegs and fairings), or better yet, simply swerving or steering around the situation to begin with.

Yes, a well skilled rider may detect a locked wheel (or one about to lock) and back off the brake in question, but in a panic situation it's against every instinct in your body to do so, and until you've been in that situation you can NOT say you will instinctively do it...because most do not. Non emergency situations are different - I locked up my rear brake a few weeks ago in the rain and instintively let off the rear brake almost instantly to let it start turning again - no harm no foul, I continued on my way and was simply reminded I'm due for a new rear tire. In an emergency I'm not so confident the thought to release the brake would pass through my head in those few split seconds.
 
last i heard, abs increases braking distance, dunno zip about current racebike stuff tho
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You would be wrong..same rider, same bike, same track and pro rider can get close to the ABS stopping distance in the dry. Anything wet ....fugedaboudit. Any average rider ....fugedaboudit wet or dry.

This is the same combined ABS on my CBF1000.

[video=youtube;X6kO6ltk3a0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0[/video]

The only thing you might have "heard" is for ABS on adventure bikes and yes indeed it's problematic off pavement. You got a Harley scrabbler in mind??
 
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PrivatePilot said:
It also allows you to maintain control of your bike when you panic and instinctively grab a handful of front brake. Unless going over the handlebars and possibly into oncoming traffic is your thing. Or you're one of those people that don't use your front brake, in which case enjoy the lowside.

I have mixed feelings on ABS – I think people should learn on a bike without it so that they have a better understanding of threshold breaking and proper use of brakes (vs just "squeeze as hard as you can"), however for the experienced rider it certainly has many advantages in possibly saving ones *** in situations that might otherwise be a serious wreck.
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But why can one not get a better understanding of threshold braking on an ABS bike? Do you have to treat an abs bike braking like an on/off switch? Who just clamps on the brakes as hard as they can with an abs bike? Is it not better to learn threshold braking on an abs bike? especially for a nooby?
If a noob is practicing and goes just over the threshold, because nooby, chances are person is eating pavement on a non-abs bike. With a bike with abs if you go over the threshold, abs activates. both are a fail for threshold braking but one you on your face and one you are not. I would rather have abs.
 
Skyway6 said:
But why can one not get a better understanding of threshold braking on an ABS bike? Do you have to treat an abs bike braking like an on/off switch? Who just clamps on the brakes as hard as they can with an abs bike? Is it not better to learn threshold braking on an abs bike? especially for a nooby?
If a noob is practicing and goes just over the threshold, because nooby, chances are person is eating pavement on a non-abs bike. With a bike with abs if you go over the threshold, abs activates. both are a fail for threshold braking but one you on your face and one you are not. I would rather have abs.
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That is a fair argument.

My opinion on the matter comes from cars where I do think it's beneficial to learn to manage the vehicle without ABS. The first snowfall I took my son out 2 years ago and taught him all about the lack of steering with locked wheels, and how the rear of the car would really prefer to pass the front of the car with all the wheels locked. I also made him realize that if the wheels lock you do need to release the brakes to get them spinning again in order to effectively regain control via counter steering and such. I did this because there's a decent chance that a vehicle they will drive at some point in their life may not have ABS at all (my sons first car does not), or that it will fail - I'm sure we've all seen or driven vehicles with the "ABS" light illuminated, which almost always means it has failed.

All that said, I will agree that this sort of experimentation doesn't necessarilly translate to bikes, you are right.

I'm a big proponent of ABS so don't mistake my words for thinking it's a bad thing - my wifes next bike will probably have it as it is one of things I worry about...the typical "rider gets cut off, locks brakes, drops bike and makes crash potentially worse" scenario.
 
Seems like a lot oh (Nobie saying) hulla bulloi

I have yet to pull my brakes that hard on the street that I locked it up.
Maybe it happened once and I don't recall it.

It is all the mindset of crashing, avoid it but if it does what will you do...I rather pull the brake in and coast into object while slowing down as best as possibly can instead of clamping the brakes and you have less stopping and control.

Prepare your mind that if a car pulls out and you are stopping but you are getting close knowing you will hit...then get ready to jump on the hood because the bike will crush you. It's like track/racing they learn how to slide and how to avoid the bike hitting them as well how to lay on track to reduce injury or death.

Prepare your mind as best as you can, see a moose...you either do a controlled low slide and go under or be prepared to pull the front brake to catapult yourself over.
Head on will be the worse.

Perhaps ppl are too caught up now filming/music/talking on headset instead of being vigilant.
How many ppl actually take bike/car to empty lot and practice controlled hard braking to learn how things work...cold and warm tires...also learn about acceleration...you might not need to brake vs. accelerate to escape the hazard.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
:confused2:
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lol

learn how to crash safely...you prefer a high side?

Move the bike away from you if you can as well as avoid hitting the object or if you will impact then you sure don't want a 400lb+ bike crushing you from behind.

A simple example, you are going on a ramp on/off and during the corner you see ahead debris or dead animal...you have guard rails in front of you...you know if you hit that item you will crash...I prefer to low side and push the bike away.

I saw first hand many times of riders taking ramps in such and odd way that they leave no room for error or escape...just saying

MOOOOOSEEEEEE!!!
 
and just how many low sides and controlled crashes have you under gone ??? :rolleyes:

•••••

But why can one not get a better understanding of threshold braking on an ABS bike?
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yup ...just get off the pavement. Nothing like dirt to teach brake control under adverse circumstances.
On pavement ...you cannot really learn threshold braking with an ABS system as it reads tire rotation and approach to lock up far better than you can and reacts to the specific pavement conditions. Some bikes can turn off ABS ...particularly useful for adventure bikes actually going off pavement.

Letting off on an ABS system on pavement is the stupidest comment ever.....the brakes scrub off immense amounts of speed quickly and you can still steer.

Accidents are sudden and an ABS system on pavement lets you grab a full handful of brakes front and rear and still maintain steering.....it's the steering you want to concentrate on and let the ABS do its think.

As for jumping on the hood....if you watch crashes the bike launches you up anyway.....concentration needs to be entirely on avoidance and maximum braking at the same time .....bailing is seriously stupid even to think about.
Your bike has mass and crush zones ....shocks, tires, fairing all of which offer protection.
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