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Buying a brand new motorcycle & want to negotiate the price

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ok so whether its a line item on the invoice, or built into product price, or FREE frt. somebody is paying the freight. Nothing moves for free. I have customers that refuse to pay freight. Ok , so i build it into the price so its not a charge on the invoice. Congrats, 'you didnt pay frt' or PDI because the twaddle that opens the crate, puts your 'X' together and make sure it starts is a twaddle. And your more clever, so your not paying PDI. Well the dealer can make that paperwork out to say whatever you need it to say, to sell you product X.

Think the marketing dept didn't factor frieght on ANYTHING you bought ever? and packaging, PDI, assembly and breakage, shrinkage and theft? What do some of you Lads do for a living?
 
As I understand it, most bikes that are new are basically ready to ride when they come from the factory. All the dealer does is slap on some mirrors (or "inspects" a brand new bike that was already tested on a dyno before it left the factory) and calls it PDI($300)

Freight is also already calculated on the MSRP (Unless im mistaken, someone correct me)

there are also an assortment of other 'fees' dealers add that they somehow magically can remove the minute they see you get off the chair and head towards exit

Such as "dealer fees" or "admin" fees or my personal favorite "tire tax"


They make profit at MSRP, dont care how you slice it, Pdi and freight ARE bogus (dont recall paying those for Couches, that also come on trucks)
 
Re: Buying a brand new motorcycle & want to negotiate the price

crankcall said:
ok so whether its a line item on the invoice, or built into product price, or FREE frt. somebody is paying the freight. Nothing moves for free. I have customers that refuse to pay freight. Ok , so i build it into the price so its not a charge on the invoice. Congrats, 'you didnt pay frt' or PDI because the twaddle that opens the crate, puts your 'X' together and make sure it starts is a twaddle. And your more clever, so your not paying PDI. Well the dealer can make that paperwork out to say whatever you need it to say, to sell you product X.

Think the marketing dept didn't factor frieght on ANYTHING you bought ever? and packaging, PDI, assembly and breakage, shrinkage and theft? What do some of you Lads do for a living?
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Hey, I said freight is real, but the charge is bogus. So yeah, build it in and advertise the real price.

How much did you charge the guy for the pencil lead you used for the invoice? Or is that built into the price.
 
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bigpoppa said:
As I understand it, most bikes that are new are basically ready to ride when they come from the factory. All the dealer does is slap on some mirrors (or "inspects" a brand new bike that was already tested on a dyno before it left the factory) and calls it PDI($300)
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Based on the continual string of people have problems with bikes PDI'd by SON, the dealers must do something to prepare the products (or SON actively de-prepares the bikes but this seems less likely).
 
GreyGhost said:
Based on the continual string of people have problems with bikes PDI'd by SON, the dealers must do something to prepare the products (or SON actively de-prepares the bikes but this seems less likely).
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I bet they still charge for it, regardless of what they do right or wrong.

I've seen on tape, Honda extensively testing/inspecting each (yes each) cbr600rr on dynos before it leaves the factory(while they were still in production that is)
 
Re: Buying a brand new motorcycle & want to negotiate the price

kellen said:
Hey, I said freight is real, but the charge is bogus. So yeah, build it in and advertise the real price.

How much did you charge the guy for the pencil lead you used for the invoice? Or is that built into the price.
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I know your being comical, but since you asked, it costs me approx $185 to process in invoice in my business. Salesguy takes and inputs the order, credit dept approves the sale, shipping set goes to the warehouse and the order ships (freight charge) , paperwork comes back from trucker and the invoice is sent out, customer pays the bill and the payment is credited to the account and on we go. I build that $185 into the sale , it come out of gross margin. My pencils are in there.
Admin fees are a dealers attempt to pay the lady that processed the paperwork on your bike sale, drove to the MTO and got it registerd. All those people , even the guy that busts open the crate and bolts the mirrors on and gases it up like to get paid.Its a real cost for somebody.
 
Re: Buying a brand new motorcycle & want to negotiate the price

crankcall said:
I know your being comical, but since you asked, it costs me approx $185 to process in invoice in my business. Salesguy takes and inputs the order, credit dept approves the sale, shipping set goes to the warehouse and the order ships (freight charge) , paperwork comes back from trucker and the invoice is sent out, customer pays the bill and the payment is credited to the account and on we go. I build that $185 into the sale , it come out of gross margin. My pencils are in there.
Admin fees are a dealers attempt to pay the lady that processed the paperwork on your bike sale, drove to the MTO and got it registerd. All those people , even the guy that busts open the crate and bolts the mirrors on and gases it up like to get paid.Its a real cost for somebody.
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Listen, I understand all the costs associated with doing business.. I also understand that freight cost is paid for one way or the other, whether it's factored into the price or tacked on as a fee.

I just don't understand why freight is the one that tends to get tacked on as an extra fee, while the costs like you just explained isn't. Why isn't there also an invoice charge ($185) as well as freight on top of whatever the price is?
 
Re: Buying a brand new motorcycle & want to negotiate the price

sometimes there is, I just bought a new Jeep, fees on the invoice were Admin fee (processing the paperwork and licensing changes) , The license fee, PDI, Freight, an A/C tax and Tire tax.
The motorcycle I bought in January only had licensing fee, PDI, Frt , cost of bike and applicable taxes. I would have to suspect the overhead costs of the administrative part of the deal are buried in the sticker price.
Seems to be a lot of ways to end up in the same spot, the presentation is often different.
 
kellen said:
Why don't I pay frieght when I walk into Leon's and buy a sectional?
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Tell them you can pick it up, you don't require delivery, and ask for a discount accordingly. You may be surprised at the result.

In other words, as others have said...yeah, you're paying it, you just don't know it.
 
bigpoppa said:
As I understand it, most bikes that are new are basically ready to ride when they come from the factory.
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Over the potential thousands (or tens of thousands) of kilometers that bike traveled between the time it left the factory and the time it arrived at the dealer...things can happen, trust me, and on a motorized vehicle that you'll soon be shotting along the road at 100+ KPH on you may want to be assured it's actually safe beforehand. If, say, a forklift fork damaged the sidewall of one of the tires somewhere along it's travels, would you like the inspecting mechanic to notice it and get that fixed before you shoot out onto the 401..or would YOU like to be the one that discovers it while you're on the 401 at 120 and it lets go?

Such as "dealer fees" or "admin" fees or my personal favorite "tire tax"
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Tire tax is quite legit...you haven't bought new tires recently, have you?

They make profit at MSRP, dont care how you slice it,
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I think you'd be very surprised at how tight the margins are on MSRP alone...and then threads like this pop up where the whole basis is beating the dealer down on that.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Tell them you can pick it up, you don't require delivery, and ask for a discount accordingly. You may be surprised at the result.

In other words, as others have said...yeah, you're paying it, you just don't know it.
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Freight and delivery are not the same.
 
kellen said:
Freight and delivery are not the same.
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Ha. That's a good one.

Both involve an item going on a truck and traveling from point A to point B. By that definition alone, it's freight.

Both involve at least 1 person to drive the truck, and "delivery" (typically called cartage in the industry) is actually MORE expensive since the companies usually need to have 2 employees in that truck for the purpose of actually lifting things into your house. And it's time consuming - I can unload 2 or 3 skids at a commercial factory and be in and out in 5 minutes, but 2 guys delivering furniture at spending at least 20-40 minutes at every house.

However, they are the same thing in the end.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Ha. That's a good one.

Both involve an item going on a truck and traveling from point A to point B. By that definition alone, it's freight.

Both involve at least 1 person to drive the truck, and "delivery" (typically called cartage in the industry) is actually MORE expensive since the companies usually need to have 2 employees in that truck for the purpose of actually lifting things into your house. And it's time consuming - I can unload 2 or 3 skids at a commercial factory and be in and out in 5 minutes, but 2 guys delivering furniture at spending at least 20-40 minutes at every house.

However, they are the same thing in the end.
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Freight got the couch to Leon's. Delivery gets the couch to my house.

I always pick up furniture or appliances we buy as I have a pick up truck, so I don't pay for delivery. Did I still pay freight somewhere in the price I paid for the dishwasher? I think so.
 
bigpoppa said:
they make PROFIT at msrp

PDI and freight are bogus

Your now in the offseason and therefore have more bargaining power

Bring cash and dont be afraid to walk away
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Best advice I have heard this year.
Unless you are buying an obscure brand or an unusual model, there are several dealers in the GTA.
If you don't like their price or they aren't prepared to haggle, just move on to the next dealer on the list.
I would wait another month or so until there's actually snow on the ground and a cash deal can often be a clincher.
 
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Dealers make 3k plus freight and PDI on something like a new R1. Give or take for anything else in the same class. Don't go in expecting the deal of the century unless the manufacturer is offering something. Margins are simply not there.
 
akira88;2456309[B said:
]Dealers make 3k [/B]plus freight and PDI on something like a new R1. Give or take for anything else in the same class. Don't go in expecting the deal of the century unless the manufacturer is offering something. Margins are simply not there.
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That's either a high number, a low number or just about right. Is that a $20k bike, sounds expensive with the R and the 1 together like that? Things probably got a gazzillion engineered and manufactured parts, put together in factories by the highly skilled pre herbivore Japanese breadwinner and trucked all over hells half acre. Gotta be a toothless longshoreman in the mix somewhere. It's good to see the dealer, essentially a conduit, take a nice chunk of the profits. If it was easy being a dealer OEMs would have their own dealerships.
 
It becomes something to consider, if you wanted a decent showroom, service dept. with 3/5bays and 2/3 techs and shop tools, a parts dept with the minimum of say 100k in parts? accessories dept with 300k, and then a financed inventory of bikes, 50 bikes at 10k average?
so your in for 3 million startup, say your pulling 10 percent on your 3 mil? If you had the money would you spend it to open a dealership to spend your day listening to us collective tossers try and beat you down on MSRP, frt and pdi? or just leave it in the bank?
You'd have to wonder
 
Nobody seems to know what's fair any more. Always with the tug and pull. Maybe .gov should sell all the bike dealers to hydro. Point being it's a zoo out there. R1 water cooled?
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