08 CBR 1000 RR's Burning Oil | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

08 CBR 1000 RR's Burning Oil

Blue gray smoke would be an indicator of small amounts of oil leaking into the fuel.
Probably through seals that are starting to fail.
Black smoke would be an indicator of a large amount of oil leakage.
Time to get the seals or possibly the valves seen to.
 
Blue gray smoke would be an indicator of small amounts of oil leaking into the fuel.
Probably through seals that are starting to fail.
Black smoke would be an indicator of a large amount of oil leakage.
Time to get the seals or possibly the valves seen to.

Sorry, but you're talking out of your arse.
 
It is certainly possible for the air/fuel mixture to be lean and the engine burns oil. Just because it's burning oil doesn't mean it is running rich (fuel)!

Oil smoke is typically grey/blue/white.
 
Blue gray smoke would be an indicator of small amounts of oil leaking into the fuel.
Probably through seals that are starting to fail.
Black smoke would be an indicator of a large amount of oil leakage.
Time to get the seals or possibly the valves seen to.

Sorry, but you're talking out of your arse.


uhm, that's seems to be his norm.:D
 
pretty good stuff here too:D

black smoke is indicative of an oxygen starved burn, like the black puffs and soot you will get from an extremely rich engine; an engine burning oil will not be black, nor white, rather grayish blue.
 
Black smoke coming out of the exhaust is a sure sign that oil is mixing with the fuel.
Generally a sign of failing seals between the oil and the fuel supply.
Blue gray smoke is an early indicator of this.
However, there may be other reasons for both of these effects.
The age of the engine would be the main factor in coming to the seals conclusion.
This is my experience with motorcycle engines I have owned.
Since I have been riding longer than most of the name callers have been alive, I will allow myself superior knowledge in this area.
But believe the others if you choose to.

Black smoke appearing suddenly due to an incorrect fuel/air mixture would indicate a bad engine or carb tune up.
The OP indicated he was "burning oil".
 
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Black smoke coming out of the exhaust is a sure sign that oil is mixing with the fuel.
Generally a sign of failing seals between the oil and the fuel supply.
Blue gray smoke is an early indicator of this.
However, there may be other reasons for both of these effects.
The age of the engine would be the main factor in coming to the seals conclusion.
This is my experience with motorcycle engines I have owned.
Since I have been riding longer than most of the name callers have been alive, I will allow myself superior knowledge in this area.
But believe the others if you choose to.

Black smoke appearing suddenly due to an incorrect fuel/air mixture would indicate a bad engine or carb tune up.
The OP indicated he was "burning oil".

Well, between me and Brian P, "the others" you speak of are a 15 year veteran of automotive repair who specializes in powertrain diagnosis and repair, and and engineer respectively ... just sayin' lol
 
You can't compare the prelude with the rest of hte lineup. That was a horrible car for maintenance. no issues with any of my other 4 Hondas

Aside from oil burning, the car was fantastic, FWIW. Any high output motor that Honda developed through the 90's burnt oil. I dunno about todays motors (K-series cars are reported as reliable), and I have no experience with Honda motorcycle motors, but it seems to be a common trend, based on this thread. Not worth the risk, IMO.

Black smoke coming out of the exhaust is a sure sign that oil is mixing with the fuel.
Generally a sign of failing seals between the oil and the fuel supply.
Blue gray smoke is an early indicator of this.
...
Since I have been riding longer than most of the name callers have been alive, I will allow myself superior knowledge in this area.
But believe the others if you choose to.

Are these "seals" your talking about piston rings? Cuz that's pretty much the only place fuel and motor oil could possibly mix (talking 4-stoke here, of course). The very fact you're referring to them as "seals between the oil and fuel supply" rather than piston rings is a clear indicator that you have no idea.

You are wrong here, and people have proven that with links... just stop now.

Also, just because you're older, doesn't mean you're more knowledgable; it just means you've been wrong for longer.
 
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Black smoke coming out of the exhaust is a sure sign that oil is mixing with the fuel.
Generally a sign of failing seals between the oil and the fuel supply.
Blue gray smoke is an early indicator of this.
However, there may be other reasons for both of these effects.
The age of the engine would be the main factor in coming to the seals conclusion.
This is my experience with motorcycle engines I have owned.
Since I have been riding longer than most of the name callers have been alive, I will allow myself superior knowledge in this area.
But believe the others if you choose to.

Black smoke appearing suddenly due to an incorrect fuel/air mixture would indicate a bad engine or carb tune up.
The OP indicated he was "burning oil".

whaaaaaaaaT?
define knowledge?
 
A good comparison might be an engine that intentionally burns oil say maybe a 2 stroke? What color smoke does it make? In case you are still wondering it is blue. The only way burning oil will make black smoke is a runaway diesel engine burning crankcase oil.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 
Fine. I'm wrong and you guys are right.
I have no idea what I'm talking about.
It is impossible for oil to get into a piston when it lubricates it because there is no seal between where the oil goes in the piston and where the fuel goes.
When you have black or blue gray smoke coming out of the exhaust and you adjust the fuel to air mix and it still comes out, it must need more adjusting.
 
Are these "seals" your talking about piston rings? Cuz that's pretty much the only place fuel and motor oil could possibly mix (talking 4-stoke here, of course). The very fact you're referring to them as "seals between the oil and fuel supply" rather than piston rings is a clear indicator that you have no idea.
worn out valve guides/seals can also get oil in the combustion chamber, which is not considered 'fuel supply'
 
With a non-turbo gasoline engine there are two paths for oil to get into the combustion system: Valve stem seals, and piston rings.

If you go back to the 1970s and early 1980s, plenty of Honda engines had issues with valve stem seals. My '78 Civic used a litre of oil every 400 km towards the end. It belched grey/blue smoke if you revved it too high. This was a lean-burn CVCC engine, which was high tech for the time. Sometime in the 1980s Honda figured out how to do valve guides and valve stem seals and this has rarely been an issue since.

This leaves piston rings. The cbr1000 uses coated aluminum cylinders which are integral with the upper crankcase, as do most late model sport bike engines. But there are a ton of variations in what that coating is and how it's applied, and how the desired surface finish on the cylinder walls is achieved. There is pressure to make that surface as smooth and mirror-like as possible, because it reduces friction. The disadvantage ... is that it's harder to achieve a good mating between the rings and cylinder walls (traditionally "break-in"). If both the rings and the cylinder walls don't achieve just the right amount of wear during the initial running-in period ... the engine will be an oil-burner because the scraper parts of the oil control ring set won't adequately scrape the right amount of oil off the cylinder walls.

I have a little bit of personal experience with this ... my '04 ZX10R has been an oil burner (about a litre every 1200 - 1500 km) since overhaul about 20,000 km ago with new piston rings. The problem I had was what to do with the cylinder walls. I know what to do with cast-iron cylinder walls and I've done that many times. The shop manual is of no help ... measure for tolerances and if out of spec, replace cylinders (i.e. replace the entire engine block), it is silent on what to do with the cylinder walls to achieve a good surface finish. The cylinder walls were visibly mirror-finish. I got contradictory advice on what to do, so I opted to do what the shop manual said ... Nothing. If that didn't work I could theoretically always pull it apart again and hone them. On the other hand, if I honed them and shouldn't have, the engine is finished. So I did nothing to the cylinder walls ... and it never really broke in. The engine runs fine, but it uses oil.

As far as I know Honda has never admitted what the exact nature of the problem is with the cbr1000 engine and there has certainly never been a recall. It's pretty likely that the problem is the same as what mine has ... cylinder walls that are too smooth to consistently break in the piston rings.

Honda probably doesn't want to have a recall on this ... because the only fix involves replacing the cylinder block and that means a COMPLETE teardown and rebuild by a dealer-level mechanic ... or a complete new crate engine from the factory (which would be a more reliable solution - but for some reason the bike manufacturers are far more reluctant to do the crate-engine route than the auto manufacturers are). Either way, a recall to fix this would be expensive.

It's anyone's guess why the cbr600 is good (never had this issue) and the cbr1000 has this problem ...
 
Thank you Brian. This is the point I have tried to make, but not as clearly as you have done.
I have had 2 motorcycles over the years where the rings and or seals failed.|
Both were older bikes, well over 100,000 miles.
Both began with gray smoke out of the exhaust, turning to black as the problem worsened.
Both bikes were sold for parts as the cost of the repair would have been more than the value of the bike.
 

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