towing vehicle advise

Hello GTAM.

I just bought a toy hauler, and need something to pull it with for next season.

The hauler is a double axle, with 4100lbs dry weight. loaded with a bike, tools, water, should be around 6000lbs, give or take.

I'm really not a truck guy, so advise is needed please.

Ideally i would like to get a Ram Ecodiesl, but i just bought a new car about 8 months ago, and I would just loose my shirt on the depreciation value.

So i have a budget of about $6500 for a truck. I prefer not to spend more. Maybe in a couple of years i will trade in for an ECOdiesel.

This won't be a daily driver, but it will get decent use over the summer months. Something reliable.

A few options i have in mind are

1) Chevy Avalanche
2) BMW X5 4.4L
3) Jeep cherokee diesel


I have had great experience with BMW's in the past with 3 series, but they are very different than a X5

Jeep comes with a benz power train, but jeep and benz worry me when it comes to reliability

Avalanche seems like a good all around truck for what i need, but don't know how i feel about the bow tie badge.


Any other options people have, or experience with said vehicles would be great!

I'm not looking to buy until spring, but if a good deal comes up, i would like to jump on it.

Thanks

The Beamer and the Jeep won't tow a 6000lb trailer. So theres that.

I'd look into a 10-12 year old half ton truck with like 180k on it from one of the big three.

Just a quick Kijiji search and found this 05 Ram 1500 out in Ottawa that you should be able to offer $6000 for. Plus parts are really cheap on these trucks because there was so many built.

Given the relatively low number of km you are putting on this vehicle, I would avoid a diesel. The price premium and potential maintenance will not be exceeded by the fuel savings.

Another vote for a 1/2 ton gas truck from me.

Yep. You need a 1/2 ton truck to reliably pull something that big.

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I'd look at a 1/2 or even 3/4 ton truck, used the price often isn't that different. I'd probably go gas engine unless a deisel was really a deal, just less cost unless your doing long mileage. Try and find one that came factory towing pkg. Its more than a trailer hitch, and make sure it has a transmission cooler. Then bleed all the tranny fluid and start fresh.

X5 is such a bad idea, someone in your family you hate, buy them a used X3, really hate them a used X5.

I wouldn't choose any of your options to tow that weight. A proper 1/2t minimum. The avalanche is not a proper 1/2t. You'll be close to max towing capacity in an older truck as well. How far will your trips be towing?

Agree with most of the above...none of the three vehicles you mentioned are great tow platforms for a trailer of that weight. Speaking of weight, I think your estimate of 6000# is conservative with a 4100 empty weight - what's the GVWR on the trailer? Always assume you will be loaded to (and it's easy to exceed) *THAT* weight. Most people who buy RV's underestimate how much everything they put in them weighs - things add up fast and sneak up on you - propane, freshwater, grey and black water (a big weight most people forget about), food, beer, all your gear, etc etc. Also keep in mind that declared empty weights often don't include options like AC units, generators, etc. Add in the fact that with toy haulers often comes many other things (tools, jerry cans full of gas, etc etc) it all adds up fast which is why going by the GVWR is key here.

Find the GVWR and post that - only once we know the actual real weight of the trailer can we start to give good suggestions on a suitable tow vehicle.

A friend of mine tows a toy-hauler trailer slightly heavier than that with a GMT900 Avalanche (5.3 displacement-on-demand ... which is always running on all 8 cylinders when towing). I haven't been in it when towing but he says it will do it, but it's not happy about it. This will be one of the earliest models on that platform ... that means 4L60E 4 speed automatic, which is likely the real problem here.

I've driven a Ford Expedition with the 5.4 and 4 speed automatic towing a 6x12 (IIRC) enclosed trailer, not even a toy hauler, and it was not happy, either. It would not stay in overdrive with the torque converter locked. Had to tow in D3 (locking out 4th gear) to get the torque converter to stay locked.

I know a few people who are towing trailers heavier than that with half-ton Ram pickups with the Hemi, and they seem to do OK. One upgraded to a new model with the newfangled air suspension, and he says it doesn't tow as well as the previous one that had the coil spring suspension without air. These are all new enough to have the 8 speed transmission ... it makes a difference. They are thirsty when towing (~25 L/100 km!) but they get the job done.

In your price range, you're not gonna get anything late model or low mileage ... beggars can't be choosers. You are entering a world of towing ratings, GVWR, GCWR, hitch classes, engine and transmission types and axle ratios and suspension types. For towing something big-ish, a shorter (higher numerical) axle ratio is better - you have a fighting chance of being able to use overdrive. The newer transmissions with more speeds and smarter controls are better, but you won't be getting that in this price range. Make sure it has enough towing capacity and then some. Make sure the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) is enough for both the trailer and the truck and what's in the truck ... often if you use up a lot of the trailer-tow rating you end up not being able to have anything in the truck itself.

For the GM trucks, pay attention to whether it has a 4L60E transmission or a 4L80E (Later models have a 6-speed 6L80 but I don't know if you'll find that in your price range.) I think the Avalanches and Escalades all had the 4L60E unless you got the 8.1L engine and the V8 trucks had the 4L80E but I'm not sure about that. Too much mixing and matching going on.

All good info above. People don't pay enough attention to everything that goes into making a suitable tow vehicle, especially when buying used, opting to just assume that "it's a truck" means it's sufficient.

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people online complaining about how performance after blindly buying a half ton without understanding the rest of the equation - something as simple as buying something with a 3.42 final ratio (grocery getter at best) can lead to situation where the truck wouldn't pull itself out of a wet paper bag with any sort of trailer behind it, much less a heavy one.

This is is why we need to know the realistic *actual* weight of the trailer when realistically fully loaded before going any further. That's often the biggest mistake most people make - underestimating. Often grossly.

http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/

Lists all makes/models from 1999 and their tow limits. If a vehicle isn't listed it's because it's not worth buying.

since I did drive a tow truck years ago, I did collect a lot of trucks/vans/cars off the hyway pulling trailers. NOBODY ever complained about too much pulling power. Wishywashy suspension, tranny issues, cooked radiator (mostly overheated by the transmission, no cooler unit) but never too much power.

I'm guessing my setup loaded (23x7 cargo trailer) weighs close to 6k lbs. Towing it with a 1/2t would be a giant pain in my ***. Towing a really small 14' cargo trailer with my bike/gear in the bed of my old 1/2t was doable but no way would I want to tow more weight. The height and wind risistance is a huge factor as well. Every hill it would double downshift and my gas mielage was deplorable.

Wnd resistance is a given with any travel trailer setup, which for the most part most toy haulers are for all intents and purposes. That's where torque (is, proper gearing) comes into play.

Fuel mileage is going to be terrible no matter what with a gasser and any sort of TT combo, so just forgetting about it is the easiest way to deal with that part. If you want MPG you need a diesel, but I will agree that it's not justifiable from an additional cost standpoint unless you tow a *lot* of miles every year.

For pimp tow vehicles, check out rvhaulers.ca. They won't be in your current price bracket, but for those considering a pimped out dually, you are solidly in the price bracket. At that point, the trailer weight becomes almost immaterial.

PrivatePilot said:

Wnd resistance is a given with any travel trailer setup, which for the most part most toy haulers are for all intents and purposes. That's where torque (is, proper gearing) comes into play.

Fuel mileage is going to be terrible no matter what with a gasser and any sort of TT combo, so just forgetting about it is the easiest way to deal with that part. If you want MPG you need a diesel, but I will agree that it's not justifiable from an additional cost standpoint unless you tow a *lot* of miles every year.

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I use a diesel, I was just trying to point out a few more things and give my experience which is directly realated.

GreyGhost said:

For pimp tow vehicles, check out rvhaulers.ca. They won't be in your current price bracket, but for those considering a pimped out dually, you are solidly in the price bracket. At that point, the trailer weight becomes almost immaterial.

Click to expand...

That site irks the living **** out of me simply because they're basically selling a class 8 commercial heavy duty truck to someone without the proper licence nor skill to operate it safely under the guise of it being a "motor home". The website even goes as far as coaching buyers how to fake their way through the registration and insurance to accomplish that.

There's all sorts of wrong with that. I'll go into more detail later when I'm not mobile.

dricked said:

I use a diesel, I was just trying to point out a few more things and give my experience which is directly realated.

Click to expand...

Wasnt meant to be confrontational, just stating it for those not familiar with the differences between gas and diesel that's all.

Thanks for all the replies guys! A lot of good info here.

reason i thought the BMW and Jeep could tow, was based on certain tow ratings i read. 7-8klbs tow capacity. But that was just a simple google search. Thanks for the clarification everyone.


My commute would be 300km round trip from fergus to grand bend. The wife and i also said we would try some weekend trips also for camping, not racing/track days.

The trailer is a 2003 KZ coyote, I believe it is a 8000lbs GVWR.. But i will double check that number. So i was thinking of a truck from that year would be able to tow it.

Aside from the aforementioned dodge ram posted, any other suggestions of vehicles?

Again, i'm new to the 'tow' game, and never owned a truck, and just assumed a v8 should do it.


Anyone what to buy a 2016 golf sportwagen for a above market value so i can buy an ecodiesel?

also, why are ford diesels cheaper than the rest? reliability issues?

The avalanche would be fine so would any 1500 with a tow package and transmission cooler. I have a similar trailer and have towed it with a canyon with a 5 cylinder, a v8 canyon and currently a GMC 1500 with a 6 cylinder engine. If you don't expect it to drive the same as when the truck is empty you will be fine especially on the flat terrain going to grand bend. Make sure you have a good brake controller and a transmission cooler and it will be fine. You will also need a weight distributing hitch I use an equalizer brand one.

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Diesels that old are very scary to me and could need many thousands of dollars of repairs any time.

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