Want to Live? Stay Away from Semi-Trucks ...good article | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Want to Live? Stay Away from Semi-Trucks ...good article

Watch this vid and keep it in mind next time you are behind a tractor trailer. The brake spring in these chambers have 40,000lbs of force. A couple of years ago a man on QEW was decapitated when one of these released and the spring went through his windshield. It's an ugly fact that is kept under wraps by the government and the trucking industry. On poorly maintained trailers these things continue to let go. Stay away from big trucks as much as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WUKLX_cFXM
 
Heavy trucks are over-represented in fatal crashes. In 2001, trucks accounted for 4% of registered vehicles on Canadian roads but 19% of fatalities.

Psst. Check out the statistics that show the percentage of accidents that are caused by trucks, vs accidents that are triggered by cars that trucks unfortunately become part of through of no fault of their own aside from physics.

The "veggies and chinese trinkets" argument once again shows a complete and utter disconnect with the realities of freight.

On my trailer today every single "trinket" that I had onboard was critical to the operation of a factory or construction, for example.

I delivered a chemical to a paper mill north of Trenton that is essential in their production. It shipped out of Montreal. A few hundred people work there and without that chemical they all go home.

I delivered 10,000# of welding wire to a factory in Colborne that manufactures transformers. It shipped from the London area. Again, no production, no work.

I delivered a custom ordered window to the Home Depot in Bowmanville. It came from somewhere in the USA and shipped 2 days ago. A contractor was surely awaiting its arrival so they could finish up a reno or newbuild.

I delivered parts to a Bobcat dealer in Courtice that were transferred in from another dealer in order to rapidly get a piece of equipment that was down on a 407 extension construction site back up and running again.

I delivered a large skid of flower bulbs to a greenhouse east of Trenton. Ever bought flowers?

There's 3 or 4 other stops I don't recall off the top of my head.

And then I made a bunch of pickups that started the whole process in reverse. A bunch of the stuff that I picked up today will be essential to the operation of a different factory, contractor, construction site (etc etc) tomorrow.

And I do this 5 days a week. And I'm just ONE guy - there are tens of thousands of other guys like me out there across the province doing the same thing, at different stores, different factories, at different peoples houses - yes, (gasp!), we sometimes deliver right to peoples houses as well. The list goes on and on.

So yeah, not "trinkets from china", more like the nuts and bolts that keep our economy turning.

Again, respectfully, you are amongst the majority who have no idea how the industry works, what's in all those "annoying" trailers, or the realities of how it all all makes the world go around.
 
Watch this vid and keep it in mind next time you are behind a tractor trailer. The brake spring in these chambers have 40,000lbs of force. A couple of years ago a man on QEW was decapitated when one of these released and the spring went through his windshield. It's an ugly fact that is kept under wraps by the government and the trucking industry.

Been in the industry for 20+ years and never saw a brake chamber let go.

Does it happen? Sure, particularly on poorly maintained equipment as you mention, and yes, it IS explosive - I've seen training videos. It most commonly happens during repairs with poorly trained techs, or when someone cuts something with an oxy torch that they shouldn't have cut. It's incredibly uncommon to just spontaneously happen while the truck is underway, and I'd like you to post a citation to a story showing where that happened if you can. Anything is possible, but that's an infinitesimal possibility to be worried about.

Is it so commonplace that one should drive around in fear of every truck being a timebomb? Hell, no.

By the way, it's nowhere near 40,000# of force in a spring brake, more like 1500 pounds. A mechanic can cage (disable) them by hand with a simple hand wrench on the side of the road. I've done it myself, for that matter.

In the end, on a motorcycle it should be common sense to not hang out around trucks while underway simply for the fact that a lot of things COULD happen, and we should all be in the mindset of minimizing the "what if" factor whenever possible, but the stupid level of fear that some have is ridiculous. Statistically on a mile by mile travelled basis we are the safest vehicles on the road, end of story. Does that mean that despite driving a truck for work that I ride beside them while on my bike? Hell no. As others have mentioned, all it takes is a blowout to really ruin a bikes day, although even those are far more rare than even 10-15 years ago - It used to be a monthly occurrence back in the 90's, and now I literally have not had a blowout in over a decade...but my fleet runs premium well maintained equipment.

Much of this is fear mongering that the public eats up, some here included I see.
 
Then keep the trucks "passing through" in the express side of the 401.

Something has to change, we have more traffic on the same amount of lanes.

I don't buy the argument that all those trucks need to be rolling at rush hour periods.
 
Been in the industry for 20+ years and never saw a brake chamber let go.

Does it happen? Sure, particularly on poorly maintained equipment as you mention, and yes, it IS explosive - I've seen training videos. It most commonly happens during repairs with poorly trained techs, or when someone cuts something with an oxy torch that they shouldn't have cut. It's incredibly uncommon to just spontaneously happen while the truck is underway, and I'd like you to post a citation to a story showing where that happened if you can. Anything is possible, but that's an infinitesimal possibility to be worried about.

Is it so commonplace that one should drive around in fear of every truck being a timebomb? Hell, no.

By the way, it's nowhere near 40,000# of force in a spring brake, more like 1500 pounds. A mechanic can cage (disable) them by hand with a simple hand wrench on the side of the road. I've done it myself, for that matter.

In the end, on a motorcycle it should be common sense to not hang out around trucks while underway simply for the fact that a lot of things COULD happen, and we should all be in the mindset of minimizing the "what if" factor whenever possible, but the stupid level of fear that some have is ridiculous. Statistically on a mile by mile travelled basis we are the safest vehicles on the road, end of story. Does that mean that despite driving a truck for work that I ride beside them while on my bike? Hell no. As others have mentioned, all it takes is a blowout to really ruin a bikes day, although even those are far more rare than even 10-15 years ago - It used to be a monthly occurrence back in the 90's, and now I literally have not had a blowout in over a decade...but my fleet runs premium well maintained equipment.

Much of this is fear mongering that the public eats up, some here included I see.


You're drinking too much of David Bradley's Kool-Aid. While trucks are not at fault in the majority of collisions they ARE involved in more FATAL collisions. That's because when they hit something it usually doesn't survive. A 747 is not comparable to a Piper Cub, and a Semi is not comparable to a car.

If you're in the industry (as I was for 30 years) then you know what the real problem is. If you want to hear the industry and the government cry foul then do a study on which of these three groups get into the most fatal accidents:

Drivers paid by the load.

Drivers paid by the mile.

Drivers paid by the hour.

And...

Union companies vs Non-union companies.

Boy I'll tell ya, there's answers there nobody wants to hear.

You probably already know what the answers are.


Edit: Also, my mistake on the force of the spring brake chamber. It is 2000lbs. The brakes on a truck have 40,000lbs of stopping force.
 
Sure they're involved in more fatal collssions. It's physics. When somone else F's up around a truck and said truck becomes involved in the accident because of such (again, typically through no fault of their own), the car drivers tend to be on the short end of the stick. So should we get rid of trucks...isolate them somehow to "special" roads (which, on a side note, despite being a ridiculous notion, us drivers would LOVE, but that's another story), or should we put things on trains?

The same thing happens with motorcycles - statistically when a motorcycle and ANY other vehicle tangle, the motorcycle driver loses. So should we get rid of motorcycles? Should we isolate them to special roads where there's no chance of them tangling...no matter how ridiculous a notion that is? Should we just stop riding motorcycles and all take the train?

I'm not sure how ACCIDENT (vs "just driving beside and passing" statistics) play into this discussion, however.

Freight still needs to get from A to B, simply put, and trucks will always be part of our reality. We need to learn how to be safe around them, and no I'm not suggesting nor trying to paint over the reality that the industry has some real issues (it does, I'll be the first to admit), but I also don't buy in to the ******** "the sky is falling, lets put everything on trains, that'll fix the issue!" crap. It's not based on reality, end of story.

I'd be the first person to scream from the mountain tops that training does need to improve (FINALLY something is being done about that) and that shoddy operators need to be shut down, but again, too many people looking at the GTA and using that as a backdrop for the rest of north america. Look outside our boundaries and the picture is different.

And yes, paid by the load aggregate haulers (in specific) ARE a scourge on our roads - on that we will agree, for those who even know what I'm talking about. The industry needs to fix that through enforcement and increased regulation - it's the wonderful government deregulation of the industry as a whole that happened decades ago that allowed this sort of garbage to happen to begin with.

FWIW, trains are not exactly setting stellar safety records recently either, for those watching the news, and the people running them will be the first to tell you that. Just sayin'.
 
If these vehicles are so dangerous to be around I'm surprised we allow them on the roads.

Wish we still moved freight long distances by rail and distributed via smaller, more agile, safer single-units. Pipe dream, I know: "just in time" factory operations would never allow for it nowadays, not to mention the loss of the rail infrastructure over the decades of JIT manufacturing philosophy...

Umm.... Not that long ago..
800px-Lac_megantic_burning.jpg


Lac-Mégantic; 40+ deaths; all because a brake wasn't set.. Pretty sure it was suggested more trucks and less trains would be a safer alternative. Not personally pushing that rationale, just pointing it out
 
Last edited:
You'd really benefit from coming out with a professional driver for a day and sitting in the cab with one of us and seeing the realities of all the situations you just complained about.

I've ridden along with drivers before, and done deliveries in the GTA at a younger age - if it has wheels I can drive it.

The issue is the people I'm complaining about are the 10% - truckers who make polite sensible passes, and stay in the right lanes except to pass - we don't notice them because they're doing the right thing.

It's no different than people bitching about motorcycles because of the 10%.

But those ****** behaviors are still worth complaining about. Also we should never have allowed the government to implement speed limiters.
 
It bugs me when people on cruise control overtake a truck with a speed difference of 1kmh or less with a line of cars/bikes behind them. If it's me, I want to be past it and gone smartish.


Except ironically it's actually illegal to pass like that. You're not supposed to speed while you pass.

I've had a lot of close calls with trucks but no accident yet. Strangely, half the time the trucker gets mad at me like it's my fault they didn't check their mirrors while changing lanes.
 
Much of this is fear mongering that the public eats up, some here included I see.

I love how the news headlines will lead with "Truck involved in serious accident . . . " Always implying at the start that the truck driver was at fault.
I've sat shotgun hitch hiking in enough transports to see the *** hat things drivers of cars do from a balcony seat, if seeing it from your own car or motorcycle wasn't enough.

Jeebus, give people some room. Getting through Montreal at rush hour this past July I was on my motorcycle and surrounded by trucks in construction zones down to one lane at places. It was about 3 hours of heavy stop and go, getting dark and raining. Everyone wants to get their day done and go home. Lots of courtesy from the truckers and given in return.

Sure it's stupid to stay along side a transport longer than necessary. I think it's stupid to stay beside any vehicle longer than necessary because people get complacent about what's around them. But I'd sooner put my faith in the majority of long haul truckers to keep their place in traffic than the psychos in the SUVs tapping away on their phones. Local cartage trucks don't get the same amount of respect from me based on different experiences with those operators.
 
I love how the news headlines will lead with "Truck involved in serious accident . . . " Always implying at the start that the truck driver was at fault.
I've sat shotgun hitch hiking in enough transports to see the *** hat things drivers of cars do from a balcony seat, if seeing it from your own car or motorcycle wasn't enough.

Jeebus, give people some room. Getting through Montreal at rush hour this past July I was on my motorcycle and surrounded by trucks in construction zones down to one lane at places. It was about 3 hours of heavy stop and go, getting dark and raining. Everyone wants to get their day done and go home. Lots of courtesy from the truckers and given in return.

Sure it's stupid to stay along side a transport longer than necessary. I think it's stupid to stay beside any vehicle longer than necessary because people get complacent about what's around them. But I'd sooner put my faith in the majority of long haul truckers to keep their place in traffic than the psychos in the SUVs tapping away on their phones. Local cartage trucks don't get the same amount of respect from me based on different experiences with those operators.

Wouldn't it be great if semis can be restricted from the 400 series highway during rush hour?
 
But yeah, I guess getting trinkets from China and out-of-season veggies makes it all worthwhile.

transformers.jpg


Here was one of my pickups today, headed back to yours truly Toronto from that big transformer factory I mentioned in one of my earlier replies - the one that I delivered welding wire to just last week so they could make these sorts of things and ship them back out as finished product.

That's how our manufacturing economy in this province works. Trucks make it happen.

So ya know, next time you enjoy electricity, think about all those "chinese trinkets and veggies" that might be in the truck next to you. :rolleyes:
 
How are the speed limiters doing with regards to safety?

I drive back and forth between Toronto and Kingston on the 401, and two lanes is sometimes brutal trying to pass a truck, or a slow car.

Sitting in a long line waiting for that slow person in the lead to pass at 1 kph faster than the one they're passing, and then another truck driver deciding to pass, putting on his signal and pushing into a line of 20 car drivers that were passing him.

I like to give trucks lots of room, and pass and get over, or pull in behind them when they've gotten up a head of steam for a pass, but the etiquette needs to work both ways.

I shouldn't be forced to emergency brake, or be run off the road, because the person I'm passing, decides to pass as well.
 
Speed limiters have been commonplace in the industry since the early 90s – most large fleets have been using them for a long time before they became law simply for insurance discounts and fuel savings.

What changed what is the mandatory limit of 105 max – many fleets used to program their trucks for a range between 100-115, which typically allowed trucks to pass each other without the special olympics crap we see now.

Hell, just today I myself (while hauling that load of transformers back west) saw two trucks side by side for about 10k while one who was slightly faster on the flats tried to pass another who was basically pacing him on the downhills, and neither were courteous enough to back out of it and simply get back in line or allow the other to pass. Unprofessional I will agree. But with everyone running lockstep at 105 courtesy of the knee jerk law they put in place, that's what happens.

There is an argument to be made that even at 105 both are doing slightly over the speed limit and nobody should be getting upset, however you know how that goes, peoples heads explode if they're not doing at least a buck 20.
 
Private Pilot, do you agree that the rule about staying in the right lane, except to pass, applies to trucks as well as cars & motorcycles? You also recognize the problem caused to surrounding traffic by trucks playing hopscotch (I guess it's so prevelant that it has a term in the industry). Given that governors aren't going away (as you said, the industry adopted them before they became law) and cars are always going to travel faster than trucks, what would you recommend the industry do to be less disruptive to the general flow of traffic?
 
Speed limiters have been commonplace in the industry since the early 90s – most large fleets have been using them for a long time before they became law simply for insurance discounts and fuel savings. What changed what is the mandatory limit of 105 max – many fleets used to program their trucks for a range between 100-115, which typically allowed trucks to pass each other without the special olympics crap we see now. Hell, just today I myself (while hauling that load of transformers back west) saw two trucks side by side for about 10k while one who was slightly faster on the flats tried to pass another who was basically pacing him on the downhills, and neither were courteous enough to back out of it and simply get back in line or allow the other to pass. Unprofessional I will agree. But with everyone running lockstep at 105 courtesy of the knee jerk law they put in place, that's what happens. There is an argument to be made that even at 105 both are doing slightly over the speed limit and nobody should be getting upset, however you know how that goes, peoples heads explode if they're not doing at least a buck 20.

The problem is that when they hit a steeper hill, and a headwind, they can slow to 70-80 kph in a 100 zone.

With GPS's showing a truer indication of speed, many people now will keep under 110, and some will be right at 100.

Cruise control also comes into play.

If both of your trucks are going an average of 105, they need to have some courtesy to other road users, and pull over.

This goes for cars, motorcycles and anything else on the road, as well.

Pass and pull over, or pull in behind and wait to see if the person slows down.

I've never been in a ten kilometre wagon train, but I've followed a truck trying to pass a couple of slightly slower vehicles for five or more kilometres and it becomes an accident waiting to happen when everyone gets piled up and going the same speed.

People fill in the empty spaces that are normally there in an emergency situation, and begin following close, or getting cut off.

So no, I'm not worried about people's heads exploding, I'm worried about so many vehicles being in close proximity to one another for an extended period of time, with many passing on the right, and other trucks catching up as well.

You know, what I said about trucks using number of axles as a guideline for who gets to push who off of the road earlier.

And of course, if some cars/trucks/motorcycles see a slight opening, then more than one will try for it.

I tend to keep far away from the 401 on a bike for that reason, and even when there's three lanes it still gets jammed up, and maybe more so, because some trucks use the middle lane as a driving lane, and some cars use the passing lane as a driving lane.

Then I have to pull across two lanes, do my pass, then two more lanes back to the empty one.

In Ottawa now, they are discussing getting some kind of a truck bypass put in, to keep trucks out of the downtown core. The newspapers brought it up again, right after a dump truck making a right turn took out a cyclist.
 
buck 20 real ...buck 35 indicated on most bikes in the fast lane


Many more people have GPS's now, so they will be using the numbers from them.
For many people a buck 10 is closer to actual, once you get out of the city.
Sometimes when a large group of trucks is spotted ahead, it will push up, much like when people approach the passing zones on a single lane highway.
 
How are the speed limiters doing with regards to safety?

Depends who you ask, but... http://www.wheels.ca/news/speed-limiter-ruling-a-huge-step-backward-2-1554/
Using 2009 data, the OTA cited the Ontario Road Safety Annual Report (ORSAR) suggesting there was a direct line to be drawn between the speed limiter law and the lowest number of road fatalities in the last 68 years.

The release said “the Ministry of Transportation attributed the safety improvement to several initiatives, including Ontario’s speed limiter law which came into effect fully in 2009. That year, Ontario recorded just 564 fatalities — the lowest since 1944 and large truck fatalities, specifically, dropped 24 per cent compared with 2008”.

......

“Speed limiters are generally believed to have had a positive impact on road safety and have contributed to a decrease in accidents involving heavy vehicles. In the U.K., for instance, heavy vehicle accidents have dropped by 26% since speed limiter legislation was enacted in 1992. Other positive benefits from the enactment of speed limiter legislation include lower fuel consumption (from 3–11%), lower maintenance costs (tires, brakes, engine) and reduced insurance premiums, according to an assessment done by the European Commission.”
 
See guys, the issue is this - we need to be able to pass otherwise you'd end up with a 100 Kilometer long road train of trucks between Toronto and Montreal all driving lockstep behind the lowest common demonominator in speed, or lockstep behind the heaviest truck that slows down to 80K on every hill because he weighs 140,000# gross.

Generally, most of us do it when it's an opportune moment so it never sticks in the mind of the public. Nobody sees the truck that waits for the right moment (a light truck passing a heavier one on an uphill for example where a fast pass is assured), and the greater majority do it this way simply because it's less frustrating for all involved, especially us guys. I know in the GTA everyones experience is different, but the quality of drivers in the GTA is crap, and that can extend to a good portion of the local (not long haul) AZ/DZ class drivers as well, many of whom got their licences through driver mills which are now thankfully being shut down and forced out of business, but alas, that's another story and that cat is out of the bag - we can't "recall" these drivers now.

So, lets toss out the big city and focus on the rest of the province/country - the quality IS better. Most drivers ARE considerate and want to do things right.

Yes, there are still asswipes out there who are inconsiderate and the public sure does remember the the one that takes 5K to pass, that's for sure, but the mandatory speed limiters as well as a large percentage of fleet operators from "la belle province" (where, frankly put, they are less considerate and more "me first") can spoil that in southern Ontario.

In the end, I'll be the last to be an apologist for things overall - the degeneration we've seen in the quality of CAR drivers in the last 10-20 years has bled into the trucking industry as well - it's inevitable - you cannot take a car driver who has the mindset of being the most important person on the road, and also with a hot head, and then not expect some of that to continue when the driver gets a class AZ licence as well. The unfortunate reality is that a bigger segment of the population now carry that mindset - they loose their patience at the drop of a hat, they don't care about anyone except themselves - we'd all agree that these people are a dime a dozen in cages, so sadly some of them do end up in big trucks.

In Ottawa now, they are discussing getting some kind of a truck bypass put in, to keep trucks out of the downtown core. The newspapers brought it up again, right after a dump truck making a right turn took out a cyclist.

Bypasses are great, we love them too since we'd much rather NOT go anywhere near a big city that we don't have business in. Trust me, if 407 was free every truck just passing through Toronto would be on it and the 401 would be devoid of them.

However, the reality is that trucks will still come into big cities. Your dump truck example is a good one - dump trucks don't drive into city streets (hence the bicyclist) unless there's a reason, so he was surely heading to or from a construction site. Anyone suggesting that banning this sort of traffic is a "solution" much less even realistic (are people going to wheelbarrow millions of tons of stones/gravel/sand/concrete/etc tens or hundreds of kilometers to & from construction sites?) based on a single accident are short sighted and are the textbook definition of kneejerk reactionary. It also speaks volumes about (as we've touched on in this thread) the general complete lack of awareness on behalf of the public about exactly how trucks are a (*cough*) kinda important part of how our everyday world goes around.
 

Back
Top Bottom