Any companies insure 20 year old on a 750 cruiser?

Neil_V said:

Out of curiosity, what was insurance on you're first vehicle (or bike if you started @20 or below); and what was your income @20?

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To be completely honest (and I've mentioned it here before), my first bike at age 18 was a 1983 900cc crotch rocket. I was bent over for north of $400/month back then because my record had a blemish on it as well - had it not I'd have probably been around $300/month. BUT, my income was healthy and my expenses (at the time) minimal, so I could afford it. I did get a quote on a ~400cc Honda of some sort (I forget exactly) and remember it being around $100/month...but in the end I could afford the 900, so I went with it instead. My insurance in the last year I rode it was about the same as the 400CC Honda would have been in year one, so it did get a lot better even before I turned 25.

Neil_V said:

This is open to anyone over 45. The days of landing a career worthy job and all the benefit that comes with, straight outta high school are long gone. Want to buy a house, car, motorcycle @20? Good luck. My old man managed all of that in mediocrity. But hey, today's youth are all just "a bunch of cry babies"; coming from the generation who arguably had it best of all, particularly in the last 100 years.

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Friend of mine just went and got his class AZ licence about a year ago and is well on his way to making $50,000 this year, with benefits. We have guys making well over $100K/year at our company. I do OK myself as well.

It can be done if you're willing to accept the jobs that can do it for you. A lot of people think driving a truck or the trades are below them though, or hey, I understand it's not for everyone..but there ARE jobs. There IS good paying work....right out of highschool.

And not a lot more education can also put you into a whole different set of trades based careers. My son graduated from college this spring from a 1 year welding foundations course and is now working in his trade, will make around $35K this year (not stellar, but entry level position with zero experience) and inside 2-4 years will be very likely be making $50-$60K/year. Once he's red seal the sky is the limit.

But of course, like driving a truck, a lot of people think the trades are below them. So they don't bother to consider them at all, or go to school and take some useless course/degree in something like art or philosophy...and then complain about how they can't afford to live.

I will agree that the days of falling into a high-paying job right out of highschool without any effort or even basic training are indeed gone, but with not a lot of effort and some willingness to consider careers in which there ARE opportunities, I'd strongly disagree that it's impossible to do well for yourself without a degree or doctorate in something.

PrivatePilot said:

To be completely honest (and I've mentioned it here before), my first bike at age 18 was a 1983 900cc crotch rocket. I was bent over for north of $400/month back then because my record had a blemish on it as well - had it not I'd have probably been around $300/month. BUT, my income was healthy and my expenses (at the time) minimal, so I could afford it. I did get a quote on a ~400cc Honda of some sort (I forget exactly) and remember it being around $100/month...but in the end I could afford the 900, so I went with it instead. My insurance in the last year I rode it was about the same as the 400CC Honda would have been in year one, so it did get a lot better even before I turned 25.

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Now, tell me what an 18 year old would pay per month for the modern equivalent? I would think I wouldn't be far off in saying 4x that number, maybe. More importantly, you say you're income was good, but that's vague and leaves the most important question unanswered; cost vs income ratio.

snip wall o' text

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35-50k per year! Whoa ... I'm sorry man, you're outta touch if you think you can buy a house, car, and motorcycle, while supporting a family anywhere near the GTA on that. It 2016 man, my old man was making at least 30-35k in the early 80's as a line slug, no x years of training required, 35 years ago! You getting the point now? Ever heard of the term wage stagnation? Let me re-quote myself

Neil_V said:

Want to buy a house, car, motorcycle @20? Good luck. My old man managed all of that in mediocrity. But hey, today's youth are all just "a bunch of cry babies"; coming from the generation who arguably had it best of all, particularly in the last 100 years.

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p.s. you don't need to tell me stories about red seal trades and what it takes; I'm sure you know I have one. Please don't pretend for one second that anyone and everyone has what it takes to become a skilled trades person. I've had more than a few want to be apprentices that worked plenty hard, but just never caught on and had to move to other career's if they ever hoped to make a decent living. I dunno, I just don't agree with the default "this lazy generation" statements.

Neil_V said:

that's vague and leaves the most important question unanswered; cost vs income ratio.

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Thanks, but I'm not interested in getting into the nitty gritty of my personal financial life here at GTAM, even 25 years ago.

Long story short, had I not been able to afford it, I wouldn't have done it. I could, so I did. There were lots of other things I wanted to do that I couldn't afford, but I didn't cry about it.

Neil_V said:

35-50k per year! Whoa ... I'm sorry man, you're outta touch if you think you can buy a house, car, and motorcycle, while supporting a family anywhere near the GTA on that

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Here's the thing...why the GTA? Move.

He's not rushing to move out of our house...and in another year when he's making north or mid 40's he may reconsider...and he's not going to rush to downtown Toronto and then complain about rent or housing costs, he'll do like any sane person making a (currently) less than stellar wage should do - look where he CAN afford instead.

Wants vs Needs - he may WANT to live in Downtown Toronto, but realistically he NEEDS something more affordable, so he won't. How many people over their heads living in Toronto could realistically live elsewhere at 1/3 or 1/2 the cost? A lot I suspect.

Neil_V said:

Please don't pretend for one second that anyone and everyone has what it takes to become a skilled trades person. I've had more than a few want to be apprentices that worked plenty hard, but just never caught on

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IMHO this is where the school system is failing the current generation since trades went out of style. WHen I was in high school in the 80's/90's we had a HUGE tech wing as part of our school. Kids could try out different things from woodworking, to electrical, welding, automotive, drafting..and a few more I forget. Many surely discovered they not only enjoyed but had the knack for a particular trade and pursued them accordingly, so they "I want to be a welder but have zero experience with it coming out of highschool" thing never happened. My son is a good example again - he DID take 3 years of welding in HS and discovered he enjoyed it, so he pursued it.

Now, many schools have dropped many or most of their trades/tech courses. Hell, they don't even teach proper typing courses anymore - that was one of the BEST skills I learned in highschool, one that I still use every day of my life..still being able to type north of 100WPM.

PrivatePilot said:

Thanks, but I'm not interested in getting into the nitty gritty of my personal financial life here at GTAM, even 25 years ago.

Long story short, had I not been able to afford it, I wouldn't have done it. I could, so I did. There were lots of other things I wanted to do that I couldn't afford, but I didn't cry about it.

Here's the thing...why the GTA? Move.

He's not rushing to move out of our house...and in another year when he's making north or mid 40's he may reconsider...and he's not going to rush to downtown Toronto and then complain about rent or housing costs, he'll do like any sane person making a (currently) less than stellar wage should do - look where he CAN afford instead.

Wants vs Needs - he may WANT to live in Downtown Toronto, but realistically he NEEDS something more affordable, so he won't. How many people over their heads living in Toronto could realistically live elsewhere at 1/3 or 1/2 the cost? A lot I suspect.

IMHO this is where the school system is failing the current generation since trades went out of style. WHen I was in high school in the 80's/90's we had a HUGE tech wing as part of our school. Kids could try out different things from woodworking, to electrical, welding, automotive, drafting..and a few more I forget. Many surely discovered they not only enjoyed but had the knack for a particular trade and pursued them accordingly, so they "I want to be a welder but have zero experience with it coming out of highschool" thing never happened. My son is a good example again - he DID take 3 years of welding in HS and discovered he enjoyed it, so he pursued it.

Now, many schools have dropped many or most of their trades/tech courses. Hell, they don't even teach proper typing courses anymore - that was one of the BEST skills I learned in highschool, one that I still use every day of my life..still being able to type north of 100WPM.

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So what you're saying is, I'm probably right. And really, just move? What if you grew up there, made all your friends there, are active in the community etc etc... you should just move to make ends meet, and if you don't you're a cry baby? I honestly don't get you sometimes.

As for the high schools, yeah, maybe... honestly I'm in no position to speculate as I've been out of school for 15+ years, but seems the college's are doing well; local Hamilton college expanded for the 3 time in under ten years recently.

@Neil_V the last paragraph sums it up well. What they used to teach at high school for free, they now charge for at colleges. Budget cuts, I suspect.
I do agree with @PrivatePilot on many points though. We seem to have gotten to where we are on similar tracks and lifestyle, albeit he has more varied interests and hobbies than I. But I do think people have to adapt. Yes costs are high, but again, many people seem to confuse needs with wants. This overlays with a couple other threads imo: the harley vs metric debate and the used enduro vs CSC bikes. I could afford a Harley (and may one day get one, as I still love them) but would rather do other things with my $ right now.
We bought a house that we could afford. We had friends buying homes that were $100k more. We didn't vacation much or extravagantly and worked on paying down the mortgage. Being mortgage free by mid 40s will be sweet. There are plenty of condos that are affordable. We bought one to start as well. And as far as wages go...I make a pretty decent living working where I do, and have also posted in the members looking out thread. So making good money in the gta is possible. Even for people right outta high school.
My son is starting to learn the value of $$ now with his crappy paper route. A lot of work for little money. I think this was the best thing that I have ever done for him.

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Neil_V said:

And really, just move? What if you grew up there, made all your friends there, are active in the community etc etc... you should just move to make ends meet,

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Um. YEAH.

If, once you leave home, you can't afford to live in your community anymore...yes, you should move. Is there any other logical option except adding yourself to the large group of people living in a very expensive city who subsequently endlessly complain about not being able to make ends meet...but refuse to do anything about it?

C'mon. You can't buy a shoebox in Toronto for a million dollars, yet people do it...and then (with a 30 year mortage under their belt and 2 brand new shiny cars parked in their driveway) they rush online to complain about their hydro bill and how they're so stressed financially.

Here on the eastern edge of the GTA where I live you can buy a beautiful detached house with a 2 car garage for about $400-$500K.

Yeah, you'll have to commute. Boo hoo. Millions do it everyday.

Joe Bass said:

many people seem to confuse needs with wants.

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x1000. Biggest issue, right there. On so many fronts, including my response to Neil above on a different angle.

Neil, come join us in this other thread. http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?199335-200-a-month-!!!-Really

I agree with @Niel_V but you can't argue with the older crowd there's no winning

PrivatePilot said:

C'mon. You can't buy a shoebox in Toronto for a million dollars, yet people do it...and then (with a 30 year mortage under their belt and 2 brand new shiny cars parked in their driveway) they rush online to complain about their hydro bill and how they're so stressed financially.

Here on the eastern edge of the GTA where I live you can buy a beautiful detached house with a 2 car garage for about $400-$500K.

Yeah, you'll have to commute. Boo hoo. Millions do it everyday.

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An out of proportion market which you didn't have to face back in the day no? And a value detached @ $400-500k, on that wonderful 35-50k /year you were on about earlier? I don't even have to add anything, you've made the point for me.

But I'll refresh you since I've had the opportunity to sit down with the old man and talk numbers. 1985ish, 2 kids, 30-33k /year in manufacturing, house cost under 40k, property tax was in the hundreds of dollars, food, gas, and pretty much everything was a fraction of what it is today; and I'm talking on an income proportional scale. Did the Fraser Institute not just release a study that found the average Canadian now pays equal taxes to living expenses (home/rent included)

The only exception we could come up with was interest rates, but in his words "not that big a deal when a house wasn't much more than a years wages; Didn't actually have to borrow that much"

Yup, these kids are all just cry baby's; again, coming from the generation that likely had it best. But hey, it's easy to defend slamming doors in people's faces when it's not your face; and that's where this started in case you forgot.

Joe Bass said:

I could afford a Harley (and may one day get one, as I still love them) but would rather do other things with my $ right now.

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But if you were told you couldn't have ANY cruiser, because statistics have shown ice cream related cruiser collisions are a problem, how would you feel?

Again, it's not about how nice of a sport bike these guys can't get reasonable insurance for, it's that they can't get it at all; and I'm sorry this is so hard for everyone to understand, but the adolescent male condition dictates that a fair number are going to give the world the one finger solute and ride one anyway. Now what do you think already being illegal does for their road manners?

@Neil_V back when I got licensed my dad had a 300zx. I would have loved to drive that 300 when I was young, but insurance kept me from doing it. So I bought a beater $100 Honda Civic. And still paid way too much for insurance. But I found a way.
I understand your point, but, in your oh-so-well-put example that lured me in with ice cream (well done, btw), I would like to think that I would then have gotten a scooter. But PP has stated that he found ways to make it work when he was young. I admittedly, am out of touch on the topic in relation to 20 somethings, as I did not get my license until my 30s. And tbh, I do not recall if it was just because my parents were against it, or if insurance played a part in it as well.
I'm curious, is insurance the same on a 2000 250 (ie. CBR) as it is on the same bike model year 2016? Because that is something else that I have seen: new young riders only want a brand new bike.
But let's not forget one thing: when I started riding at 37, I was paying 4x the amout that I am paying right now.
(Sorry if I'm a little off point,or not answering/ responding to your point. It's early and today marks 6 1/2 weeks without any coffee, so I'm a little foggy)

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Oppoe said:

20 year old, have m2 for since April but finding no companies will insure me on a 750 cruiser, if there is one out there that can offer a decent rate please let me know

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Oppoe said:

No companies will insure me, I have a clean record. Very stupid policies, I can get insured on 650cc that I know of with Aviva, 500cc is usually the limit with most companies. They are willing to insure me on a 600cc sportbike but not a 750cc cruiser

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You have discovered what i learned when i initially was looking for my first bike


As a new rider, insurers care about one thing only, engine size, UNLESS its a supersport, in which case they jack up the rates anyway


in other words, if you have a non super sport, engine size will matter most, cruiser or not...which is why i decided to go for a smaller beginner bike instead of a cruiser like the suzuki M50

Im with aviva(via paul south) now, they only insure if you have safety course, and are buying a bike that is at or under 650cc (which is why they gave me a quote for a sv650 ((645 cc?) and wouldnt give me one for fz 07 (689cc?))