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Power Commander
- Thread starter RockerGuy
- Start date
Yes you can, but without a dyno machine there is no real way to measure if what you have done made an improvement or not and exactly where in the powerband your changes have affected.
Its like pissing in the dark when its windy out, you may or may not hit your target, and might mess up a bunch of other stuff in the process
There is a common term for what you are talking about "the seat of your pants dyno" Everyone likes to think they have super human powers and can read these slight changes in FI through their ***
If you want a proper tune you really need to take it to a shop with the proper equipment, otherwise just download a map that works decent....
If you must play with the software then just download it, its all on their website for you to DL and play with with tutorials on how to use the software
Or since its 2016 everything seems to be on Youtube these days, Id be willing to guess someone has made a video of what you need already
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXFx73IyyWg
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Couple things.
You can not properly tune a fuel injection system without being able to measure the power output, the fuel consumption, and the composition of the exhaust. You can tune it by air/fuel ratio but you don't know what air/fuel ratio gives the best results. There are some rough guidelines but the original manufacturer of your bike has already done that!
And ... you don't need two maps. You don't need a "max power" map and a "max economy" map. You need ONE map that works correctly and selects max power when you want it and good economy when you aren't asking for max power. And there is a dead simple way for the fuel injection system to know that ... the throttle position! If throttle position is 100% or close to it, the rider is asking for max power. Full throttle should be calibrated for best torque at a given RPM. If throttle position is less than 100%, the rider is NOT asking for max power, so it is entirely appropriate to map part throttle for best BSFC and driveability. Don't need two maps ... just one map that is set up correctly.
Anyone who is telling you to use the same air/fuel ratio everywhere in the entire speed/load map ... is not doing this.
The air/fuel ratio for best economy is normally about 10% lean of stoichiometric (i.e. around 16:1 air/fuel ratio for gasoline) and the lean-misfire point is normally around 20% lean (18:1 for gasoline). PowerCommanders do not have sufficient resolution in their throttle position mapping in order to fully achieve this. You will get driveability problems if you try (because of imperfect mapping causing air/fuel-ratio excursions into lean misfire). You can go lean of stoich ... there's little to be gained in terms of economy between 3 - 4% lean (15.0 - 15.5:1) and 10% lean (16.2:1). You do NOT want to try running this lean anywhere near full torque output. It is quite likely that the engine will want more ignition advance in order to run "lean cruise" properly without running too hot. But a proper "lean cruise" setup will not run hotter than a "rich cruise" setup. The hottest-running setup is very close to stoichiometric and the exhaust temperature drops off either rich or lean of that peak ... IF IF IF IF the ignition timing is correct.
This is NOT easy. It's easy to get a rich-of-stoichiometric setup to run smoothly and this is why a lot of "tuners" take the easy way out and set them rich everywhere. It's hard to tune lean cruise. It can be done ... but it's time consuming at a minimum. The best-economy point is uncomfortably close to the lean-misfire point.
You can not properly tune a fuel injection system without being able to measure the power output, the fuel consumption, and the composition of the exhaust. You can tune it by air/fuel ratio but you don't know what air/fuel ratio gives the best results. There are some rough guidelines but the original manufacturer of your bike has already done that!
And ... you don't need two maps. You don't need a "max power" map and a "max economy" map. You need ONE map that works correctly and selects max power when you want it and good economy when you aren't asking for max power. And there is a dead simple way for the fuel injection system to know that ... the throttle position! If throttle position is 100% or close to it, the rider is asking for max power. Full throttle should be calibrated for best torque at a given RPM. If throttle position is less than 100%, the rider is NOT asking for max power, so it is entirely appropriate to map part throttle for best BSFC and driveability. Don't need two maps ... just one map that is set up correctly.
Anyone who is telling you to use the same air/fuel ratio everywhere in the entire speed/load map ... is not doing this.
The air/fuel ratio for best economy is normally about 10% lean of stoichiometric (i.e. around 16:1 air/fuel ratio for gasoline) and the lean-misfire point is normally around 20% lean (18:1 for gasoline). PowerCommanders do not have sufficient resolution in their throttle position mapping in order to fully achieve this. You will get driveability problems if you try (because of imperfect mapping causing air/fuel-ratio excursions into lean misfire). You can go lean of stoich ... there's little to be gained in terms of economy between 3 - 4% lean (15.0 - 15.5:1) and 10% lean (16.2:1). You do NOT want to try running this lean anywhere near full torque output. It is quite likely that the engine will want more ignition advance in order to run "lean cruise" properly without running too hot. But a proper "lean cruise" setup will not run hotter than a "rich cruise" setup. The hottest-running setup is very close to stoichiometric and the exhaust temperature drops off either rich or lean of that peak ... IF IF IF IF the ignition timing is correct.
This is NOT easy. It's easy to get a rich-of-stoichiometric setup to run smoothly and this is why a lot of "tuners" take the easy way out and set them rich everywhere. It's hard to tune lean cruise. It can be done ... but it's time consuming at a minimum. The best-economy point is uncomfortably close to the lean-misfire point.
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So I was taking a look at the maps to make sense...yeh, I'm that boring.
Can someone explain to me why the engine is running that rich at 0 throttle? Is this to smoothen the engine on downshifting?
Looking at the tables, there is not much addition of fuel at 100% throttle. Why is full throttle so lean?
Can someone explain to me why the engine is running that rich at 0 throttle? Is this to smoothen the engine on downshifting?
Looking at the tables, there is not much addition of fuel at 100% throttle. Why is full throttle so lean?
Keep in mind the adjustments on the power commander maps are not absolute values. They are adjustments to the factory mapping.
If there is a richer adjustments at 0% throttle, it may be an effort to eliminate the after-fire that can occur with aftermarket pipes during deceleration.
The lean adjustments are to correct a situation where the factory mapping turns out to be too rich for the new intake/exhaust combination. Each bike will act differently with slight changes to pipes and intakes (really any changes to volumetric efficiency), and the adjustment maps are there to correct that.
Does it make adjustments to the present ecu that is connected?
What if the ecu already on the bike was tuned?
TK4
Well-known member
The way I understand it, a Power Commander is designed to work with the stock ECU settings.
If you've already reflashed the ECU, the settings will be completely out the window.
At that point a dynomometer with an exhaust sniffer are likely the only way to make it run properly OR don't use the Power Commander (?)
The power commander does not care what ECU is in place, or what map is in that ECU. All it does is compare throttle position to engine speed and adjust fuel (and sometimes ignition timing depending on model) according to what is in the table installed on the power commander. If you have changed the ECU map, the power commander will still adjust the fuel/ignition settings, but they will most probably be incorrect. If the ECU was already tuned correctly there is no point in using the power commander for air/fuel corrections. If you need it for something else, just install a "zero map" (all zeros) and continue using it for whatever other functions you are using it for.
I believe the ecu was tuned by the previous owner but not sure. It is somehow lean now. I put a bmc air filter in it & it was leaned out. Yesterday, I increase everything by 3% and its so much better. The downloaded map wasn't sufficient
If you were working with a stock unmodified ECU, you could continue playing with the power commander to your heart's content. However, in this case you don't really know where you are starting off. The base power commander maps are made for an unmodified ECU, as this doesn't really apply in your case you need to start from scratch. This will involve an experienced tuner and a dyno. Ideally if you can find someone with the same software that was used to reflash the ECU, you might be able to do away with the need for a power commander altogether, or have them revert it to stock.
Would you happen to know why there are high values at 0% throttle table? Is that to smoothen throttle or reduce backfire?
I would argue that you do not need a dyno as long as you have a MAF and MAP sensor as well as a wideband O2, ideally one for each cylinder, but at a bare minimum, at least 1 wideband O2.
Having the volumetric efficiency dialed in, you should be VERY accurate from run to run measuring any gains/losses.
Almost all torque based ECU engine controls operate this way where the e-throttle input from your foot is translated into a desired torque, and a desired air load so even as altitude, temperature and pressure changes, the ECU will still do its best to output the same desired air load given the same foot input.
I am not particularly familiar with the Power Commander, but there is absolutely no need for a dyno to get a VERY accurate idea of how much gain/loss you are adding or taking away.
Edit: More info about load based tuning.
http://tunertools.com/articles/Load-Control-101.asp
Having the volumetric efficiency dialed in, you should be VERY accurate from run to run measuring any gains/losses.
Almost all torque based ECU engine controls operate this way where the e-throttle input from your foot is translated into a desired torque, and a desired air load so even as altitude, temperature and pressure changes, the ECU will still do its best to output the same desired air load given the same foot input.
I am not particularly familiar with the Power Commander, but there is absolutely no need for a dyno to get a VERY accurate idea of how much gain/loss you are adding or taking away.
Edit: More info about load based tuning.
http://tunertools.com/articles/Load-Control-101.asp
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