|
|
|
group crash
- Thread starter nearace
- Start date
- Status
FWIW I don't agree with "OPP style" side by side, nor would I ever ride that way. Technically, it's not legal either.
I want the whole lane to myself in case I need it and proper stagger gives you that option. It is also my experience that most cruiser riders, when in groups, do ride in proper stagger formation, and it's a standard guideline for most organized groups.
That said, I've zero problem with staggered given proper spacing as do many sportbikers as well when riding in groups....yet that is what so many here call a "Harley train" and take issue with. Seems to me it's just another style fight more than anything.
I want the whole lane to myself in case I need it and proper stagger gives you that option. It is also my experience that most cruiser riders, when in groups, do ride in proper stagger formation, and it's a standard guideline for most organized groups.
That said, I've zero problem with staggered given proper spacing as do many sportbikers as well when riding in groups....yet that is what so many here call a "Harley train" and take issue with. Seems to me it's just another style fight more than anything.
Lol opp style i see a lot in cruiser group rides, it is a fact. The spirited group ride style i go to is described as spread out, there is also this thing about how well you know those you ride with. It would be good to see the video about this crash, but in any case side by side riding could be the domino effect in case the front one goes down.
Isn't a "Harley train" just a moving obstruction of Harley riding motorcyclists? Could be a train of Class C campers, Opal Kadett Owners Group, Rick Shaws' family reunion all driving rickshaws etc you get the picture. The common thread being riding/driving/shawing so slow and in such close proximity to prevent outsider vehicles into the train in an attempt to leap frog to freedom. It is what it is I don't know why you want to fight about it?
I don't know where you're all seeing the cruiser group rides in side by side formation. I've covered nearly 10,000K riding this year (not to mention the 400K I do at work every day) and haven't seen it on any large group this year...ever.
2 people riding together, yes, I've seen it...but only ever 2. Typically husband and wife combo. Likely if they were to ride with a larger group they'd be told in no short order to take proper formation - I know the people I ride with wouldn't allow it - if someone pulled up beside me in a group ride I'd be making it clear I was not cool with it.
2 people riding together, yes, I've seen it...but only ever 2. Typically husband and wife combo. Likely if they were to ride with a larger group they'd be told in no short order to take proper formation - I know the people I ride with wouldn't allow it - if someone pulled up beside me in a group ride I'd be making it clear I was not cool with it.
It's not explicitly illegal. If, however, two riders happened to be riding side-by-each and collided with each other or another vehicle/person/object there are a few charges that could apply.
I was reasonably sure it was illegal under the HTA that says, more or less, two vehicles may not occupy the same lane at the same time?
Could be wrong. I'll dig into it later.
JFD
Well-known member
Uh, pretty sure sharing the lane is illegal...but I don't think a cop would really give you a hard time about it, unless, like you said, there was a collision...
Fr33On2Wh33ls
Well-known member
After my recent cross Canada trip, I can say personally that following a Harley train of angels is a bad idea! They don't like you following them and they aren't afriad to make that clear.
Nevertheless, I witnessed a group of approx 8 overtake car after car after truck after camper after tractor trailer over and over again. They stuck to formation, 2 side by side, except overtaking manuevers switched to single file and then back to side by side. Signals were used everytime and the lead bike stayed in the oncoming lane until most of or the entire group made the pass. They were riding pro, imo.
Whether or not the camper in this scenario signaled I would still peg this 95% rider error. I know most cars were happy to let the group of motorcycle riders pass them. Some would even squeeze over the right side of their lane or onto the shoulder to let the group pass! If the group was traveling too close to the camper they would not have noticed any signange for the RV Park, especially if they were focused on the oncoming left lane for an overtake. It is more than likely the driver of the camper was thinking "oh great I am finally gonna get out of their way" and the leader (RIP RIDER) at that exact moment was thinking "we need to pass this f*cker right now!" basically made the wrong call at the wrong time. This **** happens and is scary AF. I wouldnt be able to sleep for a while if I were the RV driver. Get well soon, riders!
Nevertheless, I witnessed a group of approx 8 overtake car after car after truck after camper after tractor trailer over and over again. They stuck to formation, 2 side by side, except overtaking manuevers switched to single file and then back to side by side. Signals were used everytime and the lead bike stayed in the oncoming lane until most of or the entire group made the pass. They were riding pro, imo.
Whether or not the camper in this scenario signaled I would still peg this 95% rider error. I know most cars were happy to let the group of motorcycle riders pass them. Some would even squeeze over the right side of their lane or onto the shoulder to let the group pass! If the group was traveling too close to the camper they would not have noticed any signange for the RV Park, especially if they were focused on the oncoming left lane for an overtake. It is more than likely the driver of the camper was thinking "oh great I am finally gonna get out of their way" and the leader (RIP RIDER) at that exact moment was thinking "we need to pass this f*cker right now!" basically made the wrong call at the wrong time. This **** happens and is scary AF. I wouldnt be able to sleep for a while if I were the RV driver. Get well soon, riders!
Next time wear a "support 81" T-shirt. They'll still tell you to **** off if you're following them, but they'll do it in a slightly less angry way.
Riding "in formation" for police bikes is not limited to the OPP. It is standard police procedure. It is done for a few reasons, the least acceptable one being initially it was in parades to "showcase" the level of training they had received. Much the same as the Rotary clown cars, no one is going to be laying a charge of careless, or laying a charge of having more passengers than seat belts in the "clown car" when 30 people get out of the single tiny car..lol
Having said that, I would never ride side by side in a single lane. I have pulled up beside a riding buddy, that I know VERY well and am secure in his abilities, if I wanted to point something out or advise of something, but it was a momentary thing then fall back into staggered formation. If I were to ride in a group ride and others began to ride side by side, I would simply leave the group, Wouldn't want to be there for the Sh*t storm when one of them went down.
Yes it is, "technically" illegal for two bikes to share the same lane, side by side, But if they are riding in formation, for ceremonial or tactical purposes, no one will be charged just as an officer can use their cell while driving, "for operational purposes." Just as an officer can operate a police vehicle without using his/her seat belt. One can get their panties in a knot over it but does it really affect you and your riding? Sort of like questioning why a soldier can shoot and kill another combatant and not be charged with murder, (ie If I did I would be charged). It is accepted by society as part of the job. Ambulances, Fire Trucks, and Police cars all proceed through red lights.. Would we prefer they "do as I must do" and sit there waiting for the next green while someone's loved one life may be at risk?
Having said that, I would never ride side by side in a single lane. I have pulled up beside a riding buddy, that I know VERY well and am secure in his abilities, if I wanted to point something out or advise of something, but it was a momentary thing then fall back into staggered formation. If I were to ride in a group ride and others began to ride side by side, I would simply leave the group, Wouldn't want to be there for the Sh*t storm when one of them went down.
Yes it is, "technically" illegal for two bikes to share the same lane, side by side, But if they are riding in formation, for ceremonial or tactical purposes, no one will be charged just as an officer can use their cell while driving, "for operational purposes." Just as an officer can operate a police vehicle without using his/her seat belt. One can get their panties in a knot over it but does it really affect you and your riding? Sort of like questioning why a soldier can shoot and kill another combatant and not be charged with murder, (ie If I did I would be charged). It is accepted by society as part of the job. Ambulances, Fire Trucks, and Police cars all proceed through red lights.. Would we prefer they "do as I must do" and sit there waiting for the next green while someone's loved one life may be at risk?
Please do pray tell, what is the "tactical purpose" of riding two by two? Or is it simply, as I suspect, because they can. Same with the seat belts. For the half second saved in exiting there vehicle in an emergency, how many officers have been seriously injured in what would have otherwise been minor collisions; and what do those injuries cost the tax payer. Some of your examples have merit, some not so much.
D
Dr. Luxurious
Guest
pretty obvious...it allows one cop to tactfully tell the other that he is "gay and proud of it !"....
Last edited:
Everyone seems to think it is illegal, and now you've specified it's "technically" illegal...but under what section of the HTA? As I posted earlier, there are a number of charges that could be applied based on the circumstances of a collision, or in the context of other more serious charges.
I have never found anything that explicitly states that riding side by side is prohibited. I've talked with motor officers about it in York and Toronto, and I've trained with (MTO related training) and discussed it in depth with a senior OPP trainer. All the explanations about why they do it are always the same, and that Joe Average shouldn't - but none have said it's specifically prohibited.
I am on my way to treatment, and don't have time to look up the section of the HTA, but it is covered under the section, which states that two vehicles can not share the same lane, (the same charge they would use for someone lane splitting), Of course there is also the infamous case, (been discussed many times here on GTAM), of the fellow convicted of s172, (wrongfully so IMHO), for "sharing a lane" by passing on the right of stopped cars.
Thanks Hedo, I hope everything went smoothly.
The only thing I found about lane positioning (other than passing) is in 154(1). It used to include:
"(a) a vehicle shall be driven as nearly as may be practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety;"
..but it was amended last year and now only states:
"(a) a vehicle shall not be driven from one lane to another lane or to the shoulder or from the shoulder to a lane unless the driver first ascertains that it can be done safely;"
I remember hearing people interpret that "entirely within a single lane" as something more like "a single vehicle in the lane". Perhaps that was the section?
It seems that would have been the most relevant section to use for lane splitting, if one argued that the rider was in and out of the two lanes, or at least not "as nearly as may be practicable entirely within a single lane."
Last edited:
- Status
|
|
|
|
|