Possible illegal basement Apartment | GTAMotorcycle.com

Possible illegal basement Apartment

slowbird

slowbird

Well-known member
Does anyone know or have experience with what is considered an illegal basement apartment in Toronto?

I know they are everywhere but I'm starting to think mine is illegal and now that certain safety issues are popping up I'm starting to second guess living here.

I quickly moved into the place because I needed someplace to live after separating from my ex. I found this place and it came with a 2 car garage so I jumped on it.

Now that I've been working more and more with the Fire Dept and I'm starting to notice things I'm thinking I may need out.

If this apartment is found out to be illegal, what happens then?
 
Riceburner said:
They either have to bring it up to code or shut down the apt.
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If it's not up to code does that mean my lease would be null 'n' void?

Riceburner said:
What safety issues do you have?
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If a fire were to start outside my bedroom I wouldn't be able to escape. The 2 windows in my bedroom can't be escaped through.
Inbetween my nearest exit and my bedroom is a door that leads to where the mashing machines are and stairs that lead to the rest of the house. The residents never clean the lint trap and if a fire were to start there it would block my only exit. (I doubt that door is fire rated.)

I keep a Fire extinguisher in my bedroom but that's not nearly enough.

Smoke alarms aren't interconnected throughout the home neither.
 
I don't know. maybe these things don't make it against fire code. This is my first time renting a basement apartment. It doesn't seem very safe to me.
 
Here's a good webpage on the requirements for a basement apartment: http://www.expertinspector.com/BasementApartment.html

You can open a light fixture and check the ceiling drywall thickness - if it's 1/2", not 5/8", then you have some evidence of lacking fire separation. Also - is there an egress window somewhere in the basement, does it follow the rules listed. Ideally should've been in your bedroom.

IANAL

I still think that you're on the hook for your lease agreement though. But if you were to give 60 days notice, citing the safety deficiencies, I don't think you would ever get a ruling against you should the landlord sue for the remainder of the term.

Reporting this 'illegal' apartment to fire dept or municipality isn't going to end up with everything fixed. Just will become an ugly situation.
 
slowbird said:
I don't know. maybe these things don't make it against fire code. This is my first time renting a basement apartment. It doesn't seem very safe to me.
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Find out if they guy got a building permit for it. You can ask your landlord to see it, or you can go to the city building dept. and ask if they have it on file. If he doesn't have one it is an illegal apartment. You could demand your rent back and a cancellation of the lease, AND have the landlord heavily fined. It's unlikely this guy will bring it up to legal standard.
 
Arm yourself with the facts, develop a strategy and bask in the respect that will surely come your way. #BasementLivingMatters
 
slowbird said:
Now that I've been working more and more with the Fire Dept and I'm starting to notice things I'm thinking I may need out.
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Most of the houses in Canada don't meet present specs. Are you being spooked by associating with people that talk fire all day? Associate with nurses all the time and you'll fear every scratch and bug bite.

How bad is it and what are your alternatives? Can the issues be fixed even if the apartment isn't legal?

If it's minor things like lint traps can they be sorted out?

If the owner stores propane tanks and gasoline in the basement move out now. You don't have to give notice if your life is in danger.

Everything in life is a risk. You ride a motorcycle.

IMO your worse case is a fire when sleeping.

Are there smokers in the house?

Do you have your own smoke CO2 alarm?

Are you a sound sleeper?

Do you go to bed under the influence?

Do you wake and react quickly to alarms or can you train yourself to do so?

Are there doors with multiple keyed locks slowing an exit?

Do a trial run and see what numbers turn up.

Nomex pajamas are supposed to get you through a 10 second fire.
 
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nobbie48 said:
Most of the houses in Canada don't meet present specs. Are you being spooked by associating with people that talk fire all day? Associate with nurses all the time and you'll fear every scratch and bug bite.

How bad is it and what are your alternatives? Can the issues be fixed even if the apartment isn't legal?

If it's minor things like lint traps can they be sorted out?

If the owner stores propane tanks and gasoline in the basement move out now. You don't have to give notice if your life is in danger.

Everything in life is a risk. You ride a motorcycle.

IMO your worse case is a fire when sleeping.

Are there smokers in the house?

Do you have your own smoke CO2 alarm?

Are you a sound sleeper?

Do you go to bed under the influence?

Do you wake and react quickly to alarms or can you train yourself to do so?

Are there doors with multiple keyed locks slowing an exit?

Do a trial run and see what numbers turn up.

Nomex pajamas are supposed to get you through a 10 second fire.
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wow man ,now I'm scared .
 
There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of illegal apts. in the GTA. But there is illegal, then there is dangerous. 1/2" drywall in a ceiling wouldn't spook me, when 5/8 is spec. No secondary egress would be a deal breaker. If the only way out is up a stair, find a new place to live.

I've been in a fire, from the moment when you know you need out to the getting out, it goes from ugly to potentially deadly in minutes.
 
slowbird said:
If a fire were to start outside my bedroom I wouldn't be able to escape. The 2 windows in my bedroom can't be escaped through.
Inbetween my nearest exit and my bedroom is a door that leads to where the mashing machines are and stairs that lead to the rest of the house. The residents never clean the lint trap and if a fire were to start there it would block my only exit.
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Sounds pretty much like any high rise condo unit as well...especially any without a balcony or beyond a height where that could even matter.
 
You just need to get out of the city and back up north where you were happy. If there is no second exit you really shouldn't live down there, legal or not.

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk
 
Up to Code is at the time of being built. A 100 year old place isn't up to today's building standards.
 
conundrum said:
Sounds pretty much like any high rise condo unit as well...especially any without a balcony or beyond a height where that could even matter.
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A lot of people think a balcony is a place to sip a beer. In many buildings it is a place of refuge in case of a fire. You go there to get away from the smoke hoping the flames won't crawl up the side of the building.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about it. The basement apartment was probably to code when it was built. Standards and codes change so it might not be upto code now. They won't come and shut you down ... only if you have 20+ people living there.
 
nobbie48 said:
A lot of people think a balcony is a place to sip a beer. In many buildings it is a place of refuge in case of a fire. You go there to get away from the smoke hoping the flames won't crawl up the side of the building.
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Only up to a certain height though...I forget the exact number but I recall hearing somewhere that even the largest trucks can only reach up to about the 7-10th or so floor.
 
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conundrum said:
Only up to a certain height though...I forget the exact number but I recall hearing somewhere that even the largest trucks can only reach up to about the 7-10th or so floor.
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That would be more than enough to reach balconies on wood-framed multi-unit buildings which for years were limited to 4 storeys, and which only recently were approved for construction up to 6 storeys.

Just about everything else any higher is cement and steel construction. The "place of refuge" balcony, assuming that you can't make it to one of at least two mandatory stairwell exits, is a relative place of safety where you can get out of the smoke and/or fire in your unit while waiting for firefighters to knock the fire down.
 
conundrum said:
Only up to a certain height though...I forget the exact number but I recall hearing somewhere that even the largest trucks can only reach up to about the 7-10th or so floor.
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In Burlington when my future wife had a condo the truck could go up 7.5 floors, her dad made her keep a 1" manila rope coiled in the closet tied off to the rod so she could make it down to the 7th floor like Tarzan. Like that was ever going to happen.
 
There's illegal and then there's unsafe. Legal means "at the time of construction" and only certain things are capable of being upgraded, and not everything that would be "nice to have" is possible, practical, or cost-effective.

If they never clean the dryer lint trap then that's an easy fix, I'd simply do it yourself. Not worth raising a fuss over.

If the smoke alarms aren't connected, it just means they're battery powered. The smoke alarms that came with my house were AC powered and interconnected, but over-sensitive to the point of not being able to cook without tripping them. I replaced them with battery powered smoke detectors which are not connected but are a lot less annoying.

Check whether all the smoke alarms (A) have good batteries and (B) work.

My house only has one set of stairs down from upstairs and it's the only way out from upstairs (living space) and exiting from any of the bedrooms requires going past the hallway from the kitchen (one of the more likely places for a fire to start) before you get to the stairs, this was built in 2003, and a good many houses that aren't huge, only have one stairway down from the second floor. I think you are overthinking this one. Sure, it would be nice if every house had two stairwells but lots of things would be nice but ain't happening.

I somehow doubt that 5/8" drywall versus 1/2" drywall is going to make a whole lot of real world difference.

Check more basic things that are real fire risks, like condition of the wiring and the electrical panel. Open a few receptacles and see what the wiring looks like. See how many receptacles they have on each breaker. Check whether the breaker ratings correspond to the proper wiring gauge for that current rating.
 
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