Colour me surprised on both counts.
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Anyone here?
- Thread starter Blackfin
- Start date
Colour me surprised on both counts.
Ok Neil, so the highway, "looks" to be clear so the rider can simply choose at that point that it is acceptable for them to ride at 200 KM/h, (because according to you the laws shouldn't apply at that time of day), on what "appears" to be an "empty highway?" What do you suppose would happen to that rider if there happens to be a raccoon who is crossing the road? Surely, the rider wouldn't see it due to him/her overriding their headlights? Or what if a piece of debris happened to be on the roadway, (again it would be nearly invisible to the rider)? Or there had just been a devastating crash which rendered a vehicles lights inoperable, (all of the above are plausible occurrences). Should my taxes help cover the millions in health care costs, (should the rider actually survive)? Again yes it was the 400, but I have seen people walking ****** out of their gourd along the side of a 400 series highway late at night.
As a former copper, we often did radar late night/early morning as it many times lead to an arrest for impaired driving, But I guess as you suggest, (after all if we are suspending speeding laws after say 12 midnight or 1 am it would also apply to cars/trucks and not just bikes), then those who may have been caught for impaired are now spared. Just so someone can prove what a skilled rider they are by travelling at double the limit on a straight road.
You say it a "waste of resources" to have an officer doing speed enforcement, at that time of day. Do the laws of physics, (which come into play when a crash occurs), also get suspended along with the traffic laws? As someone stated earlier what about the waste of resources of EMS and fire, (not to mention the added danger of attending a crash scene late at night on a road with a legal limit of 100 Km/h). Plus of course the "cost" of the trauma, (PTSD), the first responders get to endure for the rest of their lives as result of attending a horrific crash.
Trust me I speak from personal experience, I can sit with sometime and recount in VERY graphic and minute detail the scene of a multiple fatal, (including a 4 month old baby), I attended in 1983. I still at times suffer flash backs, inability to get a full nights sleep, as well as countless other symptoms, (back then there was NO such thing as PTSD or counselling etc), inside your supervisor basically told you to suck it up and go do your job. I have also had to be "that guy" who knocks on a families door at 2 am....
But hey, it is all good as long as SS riders can ride as fast as they please, as long as it is late night and the highway "appears" to be empty. I don't think I have presented you with "sensationalized" rhetoric to support my point of view, as you believe others have just my ACTUAL experience. So I am sorry, if one feels the need to travel at 200 km/h then go to a track, where it is at least a "controlled environment."
I will respect your right to disagree with the current laws, (I have stated many times I too don't agree with s172), but I can't support the notion that others should be put at risk of injury, (either physical or emotional), so someone can use a public road as their playground
As a former copper, we often did radar late night/early morning as it many times lead to an arrest for impaired driving, But I guess as you suggest, (after all if we are suspending speeding laws after say 12 midnight or 1 am it would also apply to cars/trucks and not just bikes), then those who may have been caught for impaired are now spared. Just so someone can prove what a skilled rider they are by travelling at double the limit on a straight road.
You say it a "waste of resources" to have an officer doing speed enforcement, at that time of day. Do the laws of physics, (which come into play when a crash occurs), also get suspended along with the traffic laws? As someone stated earlier what about the waste of resources of EMS and fire, (not to mention the added danger of attending a crash scene late at night on a road with a legal limit of 100 Km/h). Plus of course the "cost" of the trauma, (PTSD), the first responders get to endure for the rest of their lives as result of attending a horrific crash.
Trust me I speak from personal experience, I can sit with sometime and recount in VERY graphic and minute detail the scene of a multiple fatal, (including a 4 month old baby), I attended in 1983. I still at times suffer flash backs, inability to get a full nights sleep, as well as countless other symptoms, (back then there was NO such thing as PTSD or counselling etc), inside your supervisor basically told you to suck it up and go do your job. I have also had to be "that guy" who knocks on a families door at 2 am....
But hey, it is all good as long as SS riders can ride as fast as they please, as long as it is late night and the highway "appears" to be empty. I don't think I have presented you with "sensationalized" rhetoric to support my point of view, as you believe others have just my ACTUAL experience. So I am sorry, if one feels the need to travel at 200 km/h then go to a track, where it is at least a "controlled environment."
I will respect your right to disagree with the current laws, (I have stated many times I too don't agree with s172), but I can't support the notion that others should be put at risk of injury, (either physical or emotional), so someone can use a public road as their playground
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You still haven't answered that question...
48Connor
Well-known member
Yeah that was my first thought. You're already doing 200kph, at that point you've not only out ran the cop who clocked you, but every other cop on the radio as well. At that point you're just praying you can hide the bike before they get a chopper in the sky.
I guess good on the guy for pulling over, and here's to him never riding with insurance again...
ccasion5:
LoneRonin
Well-known member
Yeah that was my first thought. You're already doing 200kph, at that point you've not only out ran the cop who clocked you, but every other cop on the radio as well. At that point you're just praying you can hide the bike before they get a chopper in the sky.
I guess good on the guy for pulling over, and here's to him never riding with insurance again...
they're not getting a chopper in the sky anytime quick at 2am.
Its not like a pilot is just sitting there ready to go for a traffic call here in the GTA fortunately. I've been pulled over for stunting/street racing (on my 250 for ****'s sake) on the highway by plane and had a good long talk with the copper and got as many details out of him as I could, its not like LA here...
While I'm sure you can successfully evade on a 600 ss a liter bike would definitely be ideal. The main problem I think is people either get scared and pull over or just keep going on the highway for too long and get caught. Best thing is to cover as much ground as you can in the first 30 secs to a minute then take the first few exits and zig zag the **** out of there as quick as you can.
You also talk about hiding the bike, lol...one time I said **** it and bolted after a dumbass in all black or navy came running out of nowhere onto the road waving his hands like a lunatic. By the time I stopped I'd have been 50 ft past him anyways and then just waiting for him to run up and give it to me up the ***. I had a choice to make a dash for the highway (403) or take the side street immediately before the on ramp. I knew on a 250 making an attempt at running on the highway I was dead so I made a quick turn took the side street another turn and hid it behind a no frills dumpster, I waited a minute or to two calm the adrenaline....then I kinda tripped and thought what now?? I'm in full gear I can't just go walking into the store pretending to be a shopper or just look like a normal civilian.
I eventually got my **** together and decided to make my way home by taking mostly just side streets and residential roads.
Here's an example of a chase the rider could have ended a lot sooner if he didn't stay on the highway forever...he actually gave the cops up ahead an opportunity to get ready and wait for him.
[video=youtube;rDbVZVb2vvY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDbVZVb2vvY[/video]
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I got dinged in bc at 227 in a 90 through the rockies, near revelstoke, ticket was 10 bucks for every km over, cop dropped ticket way down and said if I don't plan on coming back to bc for three years don't bother to pay it. Rode away, enjoyed the rest of the trip. In ontario I'd be screwed. Wonder why people here run!! Neil we should meet up in Caledonia and go for a spin.
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I did, which you seemingly understood before the rhetoric kicked in. To put a dollar number on it maybe post #47 is the right number, not sure, but I would argue other parts of the world have shown there are fine alternatives to legislating the living out of life... but maybe I shouldn't, as having an ideal turned to 'you POS boy racer, oh the humanity, let the anarchy ensue' sensationalism; it's as if you guys clammer over each other in a race to the top of the soapbox.. and all of it pure conjecture, based on nothing more than a questioning of the rational behind what are the lowest speed limits in Canada, and the toughest penalties. You guys should have a think about what it means to have a thought. smh
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--Ok Neil, so the highway, "looks" to be clear so the rider can simply choose at that point that it is acceptable for them to ride at 200 KM/h, (because according to you the laws shouldn't apply at that time of day), on what "appears" to be an "empty highway?" What do you suppose would happen to that rider if there happens to be a raccoon who is crossing the road? Surely, the rider wouldn't see it due to him/her overriding their headlights? Or what if a piece of debris happened to be on the roadway, (again it would be nearly invisible to the rider)? Or there had just been a devastating crash which rendered a vehicles lights inoperable, (all of the above are plausible occurrences). Should my taxes help cover the millions in health care costs, (should the rider actually survive)? Again yes it was the 400, but I have seen people walking ****** out of their gourd along the side of a 400 series highway late at night.
According to me, the law could be adjusted to something less draconian or maybe even something condition dependant. Stated this quite clearly numerous times. You're all quite masterful spin doctors, inserting phrases as you please. It's not in good taste tbh.
As for that wall of examples, you know full well any one of them could happen at any speed. People walking out into a highway; a large accident on a dark road; or a bird flying into your path; they all could easily take out riders and drivers at or under the limit. To speak as though these things disappear under 100kph is misrepresentation of fact.. ie sensationalism
As a former copper, we often did radar late night/early morning as it many times lead to an arrest for impaired driving, But I guess as you suggest, (after all if we are suspending speeding laws after say 12 midnight or 1 am it would also apply to cars/trucks and not just bikes), then those who may have been caught for impaired are now spared. Just so someone can prove what a skilled rider they are by travelling at double the limit on a straight road.
Logical fallacy personified: I coin Hedocal fallacy. Also happens to be another shining example of sensationalist tactics. If we raise the speed limits the drunks will kill us all.. you guys
You say it a "waste of resources" to have an officer doing speed enforcement, at that time of day. Do the laws of physics, (which come into play when a crash occurs), also get suspended along with the traffic laws? As someone stated earlier what about the waste of resources of EMS and fire, (not to mention the added danger of attending a crash scene late at night on a road with a legal limit of 100 Km/h). Plus of course the "cost" of the trauma, (PTSD), the first responders get to endure for the rest of their lives as result of attending a horrific crash.
Flashing lights, road flairs and a buffer between the first car and the scene (presumably increased) have the exact same effect on a 100 kph road as they would have on a 150 kph road.. danger is not going to go up exponentially.
The first and last parts can be addressed by asking how fast you were going in your last off? Should we lower limits as a result since you were likely travelling near or bellow the limit? I know this is a slightly jerk thing to ask, but I'm attempting to show the duplicity in the comments, no malicious intent.
Trust me I speak from personal experience, I can sit with sometime and recount in VERY graphic and minute detail the scene of a multiple fatal, (including a 4 month old baby), I attended in 1983. I still at times suffer flash backs, inability to get a full nights sleep, as well as countless other symptoms, (back then there was NO such thing as PTSD or counselling etc), inside your supervisor basically told you to suck it up and go do your job. I have also had to be "that guy" who knocks on a families door at 2 am....
Tug on the strings of my heart: check,
But pathos hath no place in discussing my original contention
But hey, it is all good as long as SS riders can ride as fast as they please, as long as it is late night and the highway "appears" to be empty. I don't think I have presented you with "sensationalized" rhetoric to support my point of view, as you believe others have just my ACTUAL experience. So I am sorry, if one feels the need to travel at 200 km/h then go to a track, where it is at least a "controlled environment."
But you did, being anecdotal does not nullify sensationalism.
I will respect your right to disagree with the current laws, (I have stated many times I too don't agree with s172), but I can't support the notion that others should be put at risk of injury, (either physical or emotional), so someone can use a public road as their playground
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No you didn't, unless "a day in court" is your answer. Which you still get with a 172 charge.
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So, why not just get all those pesky laws out of the way then...is that what you're suggesting?
Or should we just get rid of the "draconian" ones that are inconvenient for you making public roadways your own personal track?
There's another place in the world where roads that look just like our 400 series roads don't have speed limits outside urban areas. The world doesn't come to an end above 100 km/h there. I've done 220 km/h there... Only reason not more is the rental bike wouldn't do more. Granted, autobahn has mostly a 120 limit in urban areas and approaching junctions, but between junctions, it's often unlimited.
Do the same at 3-4am on the linc/redhill in Hamilton, and believe me, it's a ghost town at that time. Makes for great headlines, get all the nannies who'd never ever be on the road that late in an uproar... Heard Homicides are on record pace this year. Maybe they could be out actually saving people
Why do you want traffic cops trying to solve murders?
The Europeans entrusted with using the autobahn are also way ahead of the curve when it comes to public nudity. I think that says something about their ability to get down to brass tacks, something which seems to have slipped through fat north american fingers. Judging by most road users the speed limit should be reduced to 50km/hr across the board on hiways and unlimited in school zones as long as you get out to push your vehicle. Additionally, in the interest of continuing public safety, more stringent licensing requirements should be put in place for the 16-67 male demographic.
Comparing European drivers to ours here in North America however is the biggest case of apples and oranges possible. If our driver education system actually put out drivers with any skills I'd be 100% for raising our speed limits, but the reality is that most of what our driver education system spits out here are barely able to operate a car, and "complicated" things like merging (gasp!) are near impossible, much less any of the hundreds of other skills required to safely operate a vehicle.
There are skilled drivers amongst us, sure, but they got that way through inherent skill or practice, certainly not via what the driver testing system taught them, and the ones who never progress beyond those basic skills are the ones bumbling from one near accident to the next - we've all seen them out there.
And dont kid kid yourself about the safety of the autobahn. If you look at the accident and injury statistics for the autobahn isn't not exactly a bastion of invincibility and safety which is why more and more stretches are going speed limited as you mention. And when accidents do happen they tend to be bad - physics still applies and a collision at 200+ kph is going to be far worse than one at 100.
There are skilled drivers amongst us, sure, but they got that way through inherent skill or practice, certainly not via what the driver testing system taught them, and the ones who never progress beyond those basic skills are the ones bumbling from one near accident to the next - we've all seen them out there.
And dont kid kid yourself about the safety of the autobahn. If you look at the accident and injury statistics for the autobahn isn't not exactly a bastion of invincibility and safety which is why more and more stretches are going speed limited as you mention. And when accidents do happen they tend to be bad - physics still applies and a collision at 200+ kph is going to be far worse than one at 100.
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MNSTR
Well-known member
Sorry.......double post.
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MNSTR
Well-known member
The thought of sharing the road with GTA drivers above the current limits, is terrifying! 1% of drivers in Canada could handle a car/bike at autobahn speeds. The other 99% are likely to kill you and I, and not themselves.....
Motorcycle riders have a much lower accident rate in cars than the average car driver. Still modern cars are very safe which is why death rates have gone down dramatically.
I don't find Euro drivers any better than Canadian drivers and neither as good as Australian tho most of us would find Australian traffic and enforcement very heavy handed compared to Canada.
The 400 series in medium to light traffic is fine at 120-130 and drivers do that regularly.....140+ indicated on some notorious stretches ( 403 after Mavis )
That also occurs in Europe.
That does not occur in Australia with the exception of a few regions where traffic is very sparse where it goes as high as 130 kph.
But even in rather small Cairns region ....5 over can get you a ticket or warning...10 over will.
The James Cook Highway up the coast is very twisty and heavy travelled - certainly it has it's share of accidents and deaths but I find most drivers are staying well within their lanes on the many blind corners.....even the trucks and discipline on the roundabouts is good cept for the tourists.
I don't find Euro drivers any better than Canadian drivers and neither as good as Australian tho most of us would find Australian traffic and enforcement very heavy handed compared to Canada.
The 400 series in medium to light traffic is fine at 120-130 and drivers do that regularly.....140+ indicated on some notorious stretches ( 403 after Mavis )
That also occurs in Europe.
That does not occur in Australia with the exception of a few regions where traffic is very sparse where it goes as high as 130 kph.
But even in rather small Cairns region ....5 over can get you a ticket or warning...10 over will.
The James Cook Highway up the coast is very twisty and heavy travelled - certainly it has it's share of accidents and deaths but I find most drivers are staying well within their lanes on the many blind corners.....even the trucks and discipline on the roundabouts is good cept for the tourists.
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