I think OP said CBR300
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Noob questions (they go better in pack)
- Thread starter shadowelement
- Start date
I think OP said CBR300
shadowelement
Well-known member
CBR300R 2015
And I am always holding the clutch when shifting gears, I drove manual car my entire life, thats why the thing with 1st gear bugged me so much, I mean I can be doing 200 km/h on any manual car, and as long as I hold clutch and don't let go, I can put it in any gear(without releasing the clutch). Here is the same for all gears, except for 1st. I just went outside to test it again, it shifts smoothly in any gear, but will not let me go into 1st one with fully engaged clutch, however if I press on the shifter very hard, it actually goes into 1st gear but the click is way too loud and you can hear that engine making a similar sound that it makes when you are engine braking (however the clutch is still in! So it should not be doing it?)
-D-
Banned
Please STOP, you are going to blow up your engine and highside yourself resulting in serious injury or death.
There is a reason they don't allow the motor to drop into first gear in the way you are trying to do. It is by design.
When you are riding properly it becomes thoughtless, your mind and body does what is needed, much like driving a manual car, you shift without thinking about it...it just happens. That comes with practice and time riding/driving.
I suggest you spend some tie watching good Youtube videos to learn how to ride, check out Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist Vol.2
shadowelement
Well-known member
Thank you for your concern! I was not trying to switch to 1st gear, I did it once when I just got the bike, and one time now to make sure It was not a mistake. I was making sure there is nothing with my bike that I have to fix, thats it! I understand it comes with practice, and yes, remembering me as a kid stalling my car every 10 meters and me driving in a track now, I understand it comes with time. I was just asking expert opinions to see if I should be worried. As what goes to the videos, I will definitely do that, and perhaps even retake the Safety Course, thank you!
-D-
Banned
Awesome!
However your post seemed to me as if you were trying to shift into first.
Ummm, no. If the auto manufacturer is concerned about people not blowing stuff up (which they are), they will at a minimum design the synchro units to disallow shifting into 1st or Reverse if the car is moving much above crawl speed. Usually they will make shifting into 2nd difficult at high road speed, also (it will grind).
Every manual-transmission VW that I owned (and I put 800,000 km between them) disallows shifting into 1st or Reverse if the car is moving too fast to allow use of that gear, and they will grind 2nd if you accidentally hit 2nd instead of 4th.
Don't attempt to shift into any gear outside of the range of road speed that is plausible for that gear ... doesn't matter car or bike. Way too easy to blow stuff up that way.
I checked for an online manual. Closest I found was the CB300F page 31.
Recommended Shift points.
Shifting Up
1st to 2nd @ 20 kph
2nd to 3rd @ 30 kph
3rd to 4th @ 40 kph
4th to 5th @ 50 kph
5th to 6th @ 60 kph
Shifting down
6th to 5th @ 45kph
5th to 4th @ 35 kph
4th to 3rd @ 25 kph
Notice: Improper shifting can damage the engine, transmission, and drive train. Also, coasting or towing the motorcycle for long distances with the engine off can damage the transmission.
Check your owner's manual for the correct speeds to shift.
Recommended Shift points.
Shifting Up
1st to 2nd @ 20 kph
2nd to 3rd @ 30 kph
3rd to 4th @ 40 kph
4th to 5th @ 50 kph
5th to 6th @ 60 kph
Shifting down
6th to 5th @ 45kph
5th to 4th @ 35 kph
4th to 3rd @ 25 kph
Notice: Improper shifting can damage the engine, transmission, and drive train. Also, coasting or towing the motorcycle for long distances with the engine off can damage the transmission.
Check your owner's manual for the correct speeds to shift.
Okay so 1st emergency braking and decellerating to a stop are 2 distinct things.
Emergency braking is to get your bike to a stop as quickly as you can in an emergency. Pull in clutch, squeeze front brake and press rear brake quickly and progessively until you come to a stop. At the same time you continue to tap the shifter down so that when you come to a stop you are in 1st gear in case you need to quickly accellerate away to get out of trouble.
Coming to a normal stop is totally different! You said you drove a standard car. So I assume as you were coming to a stop you would progressively downshift one gear at a time (matching road speed to each gear as you downshift) letting the clutch out as you braked until you came to a stop and probably just as you come to a full stop you went into first while holding the clutch in.
The same applies on a motorcycle. As you begin slowing you clutch downsift one gear, let clutch out as you are braking as you slow you continue to downshift one gear at a time. As you are almost fully stopped clutch in and finally downshift into 1st as you come to a stop. Hold clutch in and when you are ready to proceed move off again. The idea of stopping in 1st gear at a stop and staying in first is a safety measure so that if need be (say a car behind you does not look like it is going to stop) you can immediately move off. If you are in neutral at the stop you waste precious time clutching, shifting into 1st before you can move away!
Motorcycle transmissions like to be in the correct gear for the speed you are going, as you stated if you are going 60 and just pull in the clutch and start shifting down to 1st one side of the transmission is spinning really fast because you are travelling at 60 and the other side has basically stopped and as you just click down each gear you are going to get those nasty clunks etc. You need to clutch, downshift, let clutch out and continue to brake and or slow down and continue to do this so the road speed and gear your in match up.
As to hard time shifting from neutral to first while stopped: this is normal for most motorcycle transmissions. If your bike won't shift into 1st just let the clutch out just enough to engage and pull it back in and it should click into 1st no problem.
Finally as to your turns. Look where you want to go, turn your head and look ahead on the road ahead where you want to end up. You can also short shift into 2nd after you take off. Get going and start to make the turn and quickly go into 2nd and continue on with the turn smoothly.
I am not coming down on you but I think you were a bit overwhelmed at your basic rider course and may have forgotten or mis-understood what was taught. As a rider instructor for 14 years it sounds like you would greatly benefit from taking the course again (maybe from a different provider) as it sounds like you truly are not ready to safely ride on the roads just yet. I know it os expensive but your life is worth a lot more!
Emergency braking is to get your bike to a stop as quickly as you can in an emergency. Pull in clutch, squeeze front brake and press rear brake quickly and progessively until you come to a stop. At the same time you continue to tap the shifter down so that when you come to a stop you are in 1st gear in case you need to quickly accellerate away to get out of trouble.
Coming to a normal stop is totally different! You said you drove a standard car. So I assume as you were coming to a stop you would progressively downshift one gear at a time (matching road speed to each gear as you downshift) letting the clutch out as you braked until you came to a stop and probably just as you come to a full stop you went into first while holding the clutch in.
The same applies on a motorcycle. As you begin slowing you clutch downsift one gear, let clutch out as you are braking as you slow you continue to downshift one gear at a time. As you are almost fully stopped clutch in and finally downshift into 1st as you come to a stop. Hold clutch in and when you are ready to proceed move off again. The idea of stopping in 1st gear at a stop and staying in first is a safety measure so that if need be (say a car behind you does not look like it is going to stop) you can immediately move off. If you are in neutral at the stop you waste precious time clutching, shifting into 1st before you can move away!
Motorcycle transmissions like to be in the correct gear for the speed you are going, as you stated if you are going 60 and just pull in the clutch and start shifting down to 1st one side of the transmission is spinning really fast because you are travelling at 60 and the other side has basically stopped and as you just click down each gear you are going to get those nasty clunks etc. You need to clutch, downshift, let clutch out and continue to brake and or slow down and continue to do this so the road speed and gear your in match up.
As to hard time shifting from neutral to first while stopped: this is normal for most motorcycle transmissions. If your bike won't shift into 1st just let the clutch out just enough to engage and pull it back in and it should click into 1st no problem.
Finally as to your turns. Look where you want to go, turn your head and look ahead on the road ahead where you want to end up. You can also short shift into 2nd after you take off. Get going and start to make the turn and quickly go into 2nd and continue on with the turn smoothly.
I am not coming down on you but I think you were a bit overwhelmed at your basic rider course and may have forgotten or mis-understood what was taught. As a rider instructor for 14 years it sounds like you would greatly benefit from taking the course again (maybe from a different provider) as it sounds like you truly are not ready to safely ride on the roads just yet. I know it os expensive but your life is worth a lot more!
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You shouldn't be shifting to first until you are going 15km or less. if you release the clutch in first going faster the wheel will lock up. Also when they say tap down all the gears coming to a stop they mean EMERGENCY STOP. you want to match the speed you are going to the gear you are in.
shadowelement
Well-known member
Never drove manual VM - I learned on chevy and drove fords, non of them stopped me from going into 1st. Perhaps the german cars are better though through?
shadowelement
Well-known member
Thank you for the detailed answers, and I don't feel like you are coming down on me, if anything, if the questions are asked have lead you and others to believe that I should practice more before going on the roads (or taking a course again), I am happy to hear it now, rather than later. Also maybe someone with a similar questions would read this and take safety courses or mind the warning you and others game - I am happy for people who give good and fair advices.
Thank you!
Might be 2 things involved here. Like the OP, my Honda cb599 likes to be pretty slow (<15km/h) before shifting down to first, I sometimes mess this up when I'm watching for stupid drivers at an intersection or I've been driving my car for a few days. Its been a couple of months and I'm getting better and developing better habits/muscle memory. Also, my engine has a bit of a clunk between 1 & 2, even at appropriate shift ranges which seems to be normal for the CBR engine according to other owners (honda599.com).
I know I was overwhelmed and that it was all taught out loud and then practice... since I learn visually (reading, seeing all the pieces) and by movement, I only remember the things I directly practiced so I don't remember a lot of it.
@taximan62, is there a resource we can go back and find this information without taking the course again?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but check your clutch use when you leave a stop at a corner, are you staying in the friction zone through the corner? Adjust your speed with the clutch until you're through and accelerating.
@OP, points for asking your questions and taking responses well!
Try here for some tips: http://www.msgroup.org/articles.aspx
sesamestreet
Well-known member
piggybacking this thread
I wouldn't call myself a noob (been riding for 4 years) but this question might change that insome of your eyes...
When I’m slowing down to a stop and get in neutral but all of a sudden the light turns green before i make a full stop and i’m going fast enough to take off in second, SOMETIMES, shifting to second causes a terrible clunk, sometimes it doesn’t...anyone shed light on this?
I wouldn't call myself a noob (been riding for 4 years) but this question might change that insome of your eyes...
When I’m slowing down to a stop and get in neutral but all of a sudden the light turns green before i make a full stop and i’m going fast enough to take off in second, SOMETIMES, shifting to second causes a terrible clunk, sometimes it doesn’t...anyone shed light on this?
PLau
Well-known member
Easy answer - Shift properly:
-Don't shift into neutral when still moving
-Stay in the proper gear (downshifting when appropriate all the way to a stop)
-If you feel the need to shift to neutral because you want to let go of the clutch, do it when stopped.
If you shift properly, you should be in the proper rev range to start back up without any issue if the light were to suddenly go green.
sesamestreet
Well-known member
I tend always stay in gear as that is the proper way to decelerate, but in very few circumstances I find myself coasting to a stop in neutral, I know it's a bad habit so I guess that's a bad habit I have to curb.
zeta_immersion
Well-known member
lots of info here but for each questions you have multiple ways of doing things (safely) - stay knees in (hugging the tank) with enough mobility to freely hit the back brake and the shift lever. Tighten your abs (or lack there of - do some crunches)
Shifting Up - as long as you have above say 4k RPM you are ok, shift to your heart's desire and rev that thing (don't be stupid at 12k RPM in 1st gear though)
Shift down/braking - always use both brake (unless you are on a R1, 1000RR wearing flip flops and a speedo /sarcasm) - NEVER PULL THE CLUTCH WHEN BRAKING from 60 or 100 without downshifting - emergency is ok is panic/fear/p00
Option 1: brake and once you hear the engine unwind to about 2k RPM go down 1 gear (safest for new riders)
Option 2: brake and once you get to about 20Kmph pull in the clutch and do 6/5/4/3/2 - not 1 (this is odd and mostly used for some sort of inattentive/panic braking)
Option 3: brake and as you go to about 4k RPM , blip (roll the throttle on a bit) and go down 1 gear (repeat till stop)
Question 4 - is fine, my bike is the same. False neutral - not going into 1st/2nd from neutral - release the clutch a bit while holding the front brake until you hear a click or it start biting, then pull in and go 1st or whatever
Question 5 - I stopped using 1st gear unless i need to stop - usually i try to do 2nd gear with clutch play (NOT WHILE YOU ARE LEANED OVER- don't be stupid). Look ahead, put chin in shoulder and prepare to turn before you need to. Think ahead. Proper block position and don't look at the tach. Might be work
Shifting Up - as long as you have above say 4k RPM you are ok, shift to your heart's desire and rev that thing (don't be stupid at 12k RPM in 1st gear though)
Shift down/braking - always use both brake (unless you are on a R1, 1000RR wearing flip flops and a speedo /sarcasm) - NEVER PULL THE CLUTCH WHEN BRAKING from 60 or 100 without downshifting - emergency is ok is panic/fear/p00
Option 1: brake and once you hear the engine unwind to about 2k RPM go down 1 gear (safest for new riders)
Option 2: brake and once you get to about 20Kmph pull in the clutch and do 6/5/4/3/2 - not 1 (this is odd and mostly used for some sort of inattentive/panic braking)
Option 3: brake and as you go to about 4k RPM , blip (roll the throttle on a bit) and go down 1 gear (repeat till stop)
Question 4 - is fine, my bike is the same. False neutral - not going into 1st/2nd from neutral - release the clutch a bit while holding the front brake until you hear a click or it start biting, then pull in and go 1st or whatever
Question 5 - I stopped using 1st gear unless i need to stop - usually i try to do 2nd gear with clutch play (NOT WHILE YOU ARE LEANED OVER- don't be stupid). Look ahead, put chin in shoulder and prepare to turn before you need to. Think ahead. Proper block position and don't look at the tach. Might be work
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