Questionable bike safety | GTAMotorcycle.com

Questionable bike safety

slowbird

slowbird

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I just bought a new bike (new to me) and one of the deals I made with the seller was to get it safetied before I bought it. When I was looking at the bike I noticed the chain looked a tad rusty and some of the links appeard stuck. I brought this to the sellers attention.

After the saftey the seller tells me it passed and the shop only recommended the chain be adjusted which he gave the ok for and paid for it. I got the certificate and the receipt from the shop.

Skip to now when I have my plates on the bike and it's insured. I take it for it's first ride and the front brakes are obviously warped. Slight/constant pressure on the front lever when slowing down you can feel the brakes grabbing and letting go in relation to the speed of the front wheel. Heavy breaking has the front end shake pretty bad.

When I got it back in my garage and I put it on its center stand I checked the chain and it still has tight links.

Are these things that a safety should have found? I'm guessing the shop doesn't check rotor run-out during a safety but they passed the chain with tight links?
 
Both should have been found. If you take it elsewhere for a safety you can sue the original person that safetied it, for all work that must be preformed to pass certification.
 
I don't think the Ontario Safety Certificate is close to a gold standard for a safe bike. Shops just don't spend the time required for a thorough check, and it is the seller paying the shop. It is in the best interest of the shop to pass the bike and continue business with the seller.
 
ANY shop can certify a motorcycle if they have the green sign out front.
The problem is, if you take it to shop that only repairs cars, they really have no idea of what to look for on a motorcycle.
In this case, what constitutes damage to a chain and sprockets?
They put the bike on a stand with the rear wheel raised, start the engine and the chain moves the rear wheel.
Pass the drive chain and sprocket test.
Push the bike across the shop floor. Did the front brake stop the bike and did the brake light come on?
Pass the brake test.
 
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You bought a used bike. Safety or not, expect to have to shell out for a few repairs to get it the way you want it. A stiff chain is better than a loose and sloppy one. Any bike (or vehicle for that matter) sitting for a long time is in danger of warping its rotors in the first time on the road since they tend to rust very, very quickly when sitting. Oil the chain, change the rotors and the pads and go have fun.
 
i dont think warped rotors really matter for safety to be honest....even on cars.
its usually pad and rotor thickness....the remaining wearable amount must be sufficient.
 
Buyer beware and take that safety with a grain of salt. I've heard of a shop recommending new chain/sprockets and wheel/head bearings to complete a safety. When asked to check the chain adjustment and air pressure in the tires, the problems vanished. Lazy, incompetent or just cynical it's hard to say. A good, honest mechanic should be worth their weight in gold. Apparently not, from all the accounts I've heard.
 
slowbird said:
I just bought a new bike (new to me) and one of the deals I made with the seller was to get it safetied before I bought it. When I was looking at the bike I noticed the chain looked a tad rusty and some of the links appeard stuck. I brought this to the sellers attention.

After the saftey the seller tells me it passed and the shop only recommended the chain be adjusted which he gave the ok for and paid for it. I got the certificate and the receipt from the shop.

Skip to now when I have my plates on the bike and it's insured. I take it for it's first ride and the front brakes are obviously warped. Slight/constant pressure on the front lever when slowing down you can feel the brakes grabbing and letting go in relation to the speed of the front wheel. Heavy breaking has the front end shake pretty bad.

When I got it back in my garage and I put it on its center stand I checked the chain and it still has tight links.

Are these things that a safety should have found? I'm guessing the shop doesn't check rotor run-out during a safety but they passed the chain with tight links?
Click to expand...
I know it seems weird but it passed,now it's up to you to do what you need to feel safe.
 
TorontoBoy said:
I don't think the Ontario Safety Certificate is close to a gold standard for a safe bike. Shops just don't spend the time required for a thorough check, and it is the seller paying the shop. It is in the best interest of the shop to pass the bike and continue business with the seller.
Click to expand...
Exactly. An Ontario safety really is a minimum performance standard, not a new vehicle warranty. To your last point, it is in the shops best interest to catch anything that does not pass; MTO doesn't give a rats *** about your business with the seller, and neither does a disgruntled buyer.

statsman said:
ANY shop can certify a motorcycle if they have the green sign out front.
The problem is, if you take it to shop that only repairs cars, they really have no idea of what to look for on a motorcycle.
In this case, what constitutes damage to a chain and sprockets?
They put the bike on a stand with the rear wheel raised, start the engine and the chain moves the rear wheel.
Pass the drive chain and sprocket test.
Push the bike across the shop floor. Did the front brake stop the bike and did the brake light come on?
Pass the brake test.
Click to expand...

Not entirely true; the inspecting mechanic must be able to ride the motorcycle to complete performance test laid out in Schedule 6. Do some shops ignore this fact? Sure, I've seen it.

EaZ8 said:
i dont think warped rotors really matter for safety to be honest....even on cars.
its usually pad and rotor thickness....the remaining wearable amount must be sufficient.
Click to expand...
Blackfin said:
Tight chain links and pulsating rotors are not safety issues. Check Schedule 6 of RRO 611 for what's checked and what criteria are applied.
Click to expand...

There is a maximum run-out specification to be checked, usually supplied by the manufacturer. Not something you measure everytime; unless you feel a pulsation on the test drive/ride. A measurement over the manufacturers maximum run-out fails under 'excessively worn/damaged'


OP, if the pulse is minor it may still pass safety. The man reason there is a maximum runout spec is because a bad enough warp in a rotor has the potential to push a pad back so far, that a single stroke of the master cylinder may not move enough fluid to apply the brakes. In simple terms, you pull the level and have nothing until you pump them a few times. It's similar to brake loss after a bad tank slapper. As for the chain, again manufacturer provides measurements to be used, if it passes those measurments it passes safety, and again i stress, these a maximum wear limits (minimum safety) not new bike specifications
 
Neil_V said:
There is a maximum run-out specification to be checked, usually supplied by the manufacturer. Not something you measure everytime; unless you feel a pulsation on the test drive/ride. A measurement over the manufacturers maximum run-out fails under 'excessively worn/damaged'
Click to expand...

Wondering how often a shop pulls out a dial indicator to check this though. If the bike fails 2(4)(b)(ii) or 2(7)(a) I would think they'd just outright fail it rather than pull out precision tools to actually measure/determine what the problem is. I'll assume that the shop doing the checks tested both of these and found the bike to pass.

So, again, a pulsating brake is not necessarily a safety issue. I think the OP was looking for pristine, showroom-condition and a safety does not (and is not intended) to assure that.
 
Blackfin said:
Wondering how often a shop pulls out a dial indicator to check this though. If the bike fails 2(4)(b)(ii) or 2(7)(a) I would think they'd just outright fail it rather than pull out precision tools to actually measure/determine what the problem is. I'll assume that the shop doing the checks tested both of these and found the bike to pass.

So, again, a pulsating brake is not necessarily a safety issue. I think the OP was looking for pristine, showroom-condition and a safety does not (and is not intended) to assure that.
Click to expand...

It's a common misconception that a passed safety check = tip top shape. I see it all the time.
 
Wow. Sometimes I forget how far people run with their opinions.

I was merely asking if the 2 problem I found with the bike were things that a Safety should have found. I have had a few older bikes, and I took them myself for the safety. I watched as they looked over the bikes meticulously and brought up steering stem bearings and other things I wouldn't have found.
Even Rosey Toes, who some consider to pass bikes easily looked over my bikes during the safteies very very closely.

So when the seller took the bike to Riderschoice I assumed they would have ATLEAST called the chain. But as some of you have pointed it, not necessarily.
Thank you to those that answered my question.

I wasn't looking for options to sue or thinking about taking the bike back or anything. I was already planning on fixing everything myself. I was just curious.

Neil_V said:
OP, if the pulse is minor it may still pass safety. The man reason there is a maximum runout spec is because a bad enough warp in a rotor has the potential to push a pad back so far, that a single stroke of the master cylinder may not move enough fluid to apply the brakes. In simple terms, you pull the level and have nothing until you pump them a few times. It's similar to brake loss after a bad tank slapper. As for the chain, again manufacturer provides measurements to be used, if it passes those measurments it passes safety, and again i stress, these a maximum wear limits (minimum safety) not new bike specifications
Click to expand...

Ah! I see. Thanks for the explanation. This was the answer I was looking for. Much obliged. (and incase you were curious, the pulse is inbetween those two scenarios you mentioned. Enough to bob the front of the bike up and down but not enough that I lose break pressure)

Blackfin said:
I think the OP was looking for pristine, showroom-condition and a safety does not (and is not intended) to assure that.
Click to expand...

You think incorrectly. That is a pretty wild assumption after reading my OP.
I have bought many used bikes and got them saftied and they are far from showroom condition.
 
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You own the bike now, your efforts are better directed to making it the way you want it and safe in your eyes, rather than being all butt hurt about the chain.
Safety certificates, blue box program, airport security theatre, all examples of government helping us live better.
 
AGS said:
You own the bike now, your efforts are better directed to making it the way you want it and safe in your eyes, rather than being all butt hurt about the chain.
Safety certificates, blue box program, airport security theatre, all examples of government helping us live better.
Click to expand...

All excellent examples and and a splash of cold water to the face of anybody even remotely suggesting swapping helmets for turbans. And to the OP, I did not assume that you would assume that anybody would assume you're butt hurt and looking for a pristine chain out of this unfortunate incident. I'm on your side.:eek:
 
Hmmm...I re-read my original post and don't see why some are assuming I'm making a big stink or am "butt-hurt" about this situation. I was just looking for some clarification.

inreb said:
And to the OP, I did not assume that you would assume that anybody would assume you're butt hurt and looking for a pristine chain out of this unfortunate incident. I'm on your side.:eek:
Click to expand...

Thanks bud! That's a lot of assuming....or not assuming?

Sometimes you cant ask a simple question without people getting the wrong idea.
(welcome to the internet slowbird)
 
slowbird said:
Hmmm...I re-read my original post and don't see why some are assuming I'm making a big stink or am "butt-hurt" about this situation. I was just looking for some clarification.



Thanks bud! That's a lot of assuming....or not assuming?

Sometimes you cant ask a simple question without people getting the wrong idea.
(welcome to the internet slowbird)
Click to expand...

The replies point out the fuzzy grey line between legal and ethical. I don't know what the fix up costs will be, how they will affect your finances and what your feelings are about righting wrongs at any cost.

In my case if the repair costs were less than a day's pay I would just eat them. However that enables the less than ethical mechanic to continue to endanger others. I've had my share of crusades and realized I can't fight every battle on behalf of the next guy. Your situation, your call.
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