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North Carolina

oomis

oomis

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I debated whether or not to post this here, and despite the suspicion that this thread is going to devolve quickly, I'm going to anyway.

Recently, the NC state legislature has enacted a mind-boggling piece of legislation, called "The Bathroom Bill", or HB2. I'll give you my understanding of it, but encourage anyone looking to understand it for themselves to google it so can be informed directly.

The city of Charlotte, NC, which is relatively liberal, was in the process of drafting some municipal legislation that was going to make it illegal for businesses to discriminate on the basis of sexual preference (seems reasonable) the state stepped in with a hasty STATE bill, HB2, that over-rode the municipal law. It required trans-sexual people to use the bathroom of the gender listed on their birth certificate.

IMHO it was a giant &^%$ you to the LGBTQ community and is completely without basis. It is unpoliceable, unethical, impractical and just plain homophobic. And in over-riding municipalities by making it illegal for them to draft laws to protect a community from discrimination, the state appears to have stepped over some boundaries.

How does this affect me? Every year I spend at least a week, sometimes two, in the NC mountains on my motorcycle. It's my happy place and when I say I spend all winter dreaming of the roads, it's not a joke.

But now, I just can't. And so me, and 6 other riders that were going to ride together this summer have decided that we can't spend our time and money in NC until this gets fixed.

I can't vote, but my wallet and my influence can. Instead we will be going to Virginia this year and not spending a dime in NC. I know in the grand scheme of things, my actions don't amount to much, but it's a choice my buddies and I can make, and it's what we are choosing to do. I have no horse in this race and it breaks my heart that I can't ride those roads this year, but I can't stand bullies.

I'm not alone. PayPal is pulling out of a 400 job expansion in NC. Bruce Springsteen is taking a stance and cancelling a show. There's tons of heat on this right now.

I urge anyone considering a riding trip to NC this summer to give this some thought.

I'm personally hoping that they change their minds, and my trip can go ahead as planned. But if they don't, I'm looking forward to exploring Virginia instead.
 
I was going to do the Blue Ridge Parkway, but about a third of it is in NC.
I am giving this plan some re-evaluation.
Luckily there are some great riding roads in KY and WV so I may head there instead.
 
Let's keep in mind that there are numerous business in NC that do not agree with this legislation, and will probably suffer because of it.
If you really want to go to NC (I agree the roads are incredible!), just call the hotels where you are planning to stay at (maybe even restaurants if you know any) and tell them you are travelling with a transgender family member and ask what their policy is… I'm willing to bet most places will surprise you; and if they support the legislation, tell them they just lost a customer!

It' s not the first time that business suffer because of bonehead government decisions… it happens everywhere.
 
I actually really struggled with this, because I'm dead certain that the motel owner of the place I was planning to stay with wouldn't support the bill. I really gave some thought to "who am I punishing". Unfortunately, where I landed was that while I can't vote, they can.

What I'm doing is watching the issue very closely to see if there is any change between now and when I leave for my trip. The mom and pop motel where I'm staying has a 24 hour cancellation policy, as does the mom and pop in VA. I'll make a call about a week before I leave, and when I call to cancel my reservation in NC, I'll politely explain why.

In the end, the motel probably doesn't care so much about one small reservation, and I'm under no delusion that my money makes any kind of a difference in the grand scheme of things. The various gas stations and restaurants certainly aren't going to consider our business material, and it's not realistic to check the policy of each gas stop before I fill up.
 
I admire you to giving it this much consideration. I admit to not having given it much thought.

It's unfortunate that there is this wave of 'bible bills' happening in the USA. Sadly, the only thing that seems to work against them is money. If there's enough money that is pulled away from those places, then they will change their mind. There was a recent case of a governor vetoing one of these bills - Georgia. Disney and AMC threatened to pull filming from their shows from there.

Tennessee also has one of these bills going on as well.
 
Really the only way to change the law is for state citizens to vote the bastids out...economic sanction is the only reliable protest unless you take the time to query your host.
 
Good thread and thanks for posting it.

There was a time in my life where I would not travel to a place, because of a law or practice held by many in that place. This belief stopped me from going into the US for a number of years and in fact, a lot of countries in the world. Indeed, the HB2 law feels like the lawmakers have traveled back in time, instead of moving forward. But to not go to North Carolina, based on my opposition of the law does not make sense on many levels as well, some of which you have already pointed out.

As a parallel, for many years I did not travel into the US because of their policies and/or government, and finally relented in 2007. I went to Arizona and realized that I had been missing out on so much by this self imposed travel ban. Next, I went to the Amazon jungle, a place I had avoided for so long because of the rampant deforestation and the corruption that enabled it, but this was a place where I was able to swim in the river, sleep in the jungle and further develop an affinity for it. Then I went to Lebanon, a place I avoided because of the senseless killing that had gone on there for years, but where I was able to travel the coastline of the Mediterranean Sea, visit some of the oldest cities in the world and explore the incredible diversity and people. Then I went to Syria, a place I avoided because of the madman that is Assad, but a place that I was able to meet some of the most amazing people in the world and some of the most amazing places in the world, before the destruction that has unfolded since. Then I went to Israel, a place avoided for the way Palestinians have been treated for decades, but a place so rich in cultural history that I was easily reminded of the insignificance of my views. Then I went to Uganda, a place that did massacre their own and currently treats LGBTQ even worse than what is proposed by HB2, but a place where I got to trek with mountain gorillas in their natural habitat, spend time with the locals of the land and eat the amazing foods they shared. Then I went to Sri Lanka, a place where their sitting president had massacred many of the nations citizens in an effort to force peace upon the island, but also a place where I have eaten the best foods of my life, and been humbled by the generosity of so many I encountered there.

At the end of the day, the list goes on and on of so many places that have so many practices which I do not condone and could easily justify not traveling to. But then I might as well do as I did before and just stay home all the time, because if I look hard enough, I can always find something worth protesting about.
 
So just so I'm clear with the consensus of this thread: the "transgendered" have "rights" that if somehow "infringed" upon require boycotting certain geographical regions, but the "non-transgendered" don't?
 
Very well said Shane.

I have also been to many countries where I don't agree with their practises, but I am very glad I still went -- and they won't notice either way.

shanekingsley said:
Good thread and thanks for posting it.

There was a time in my life where I would not travel to a place, because of a law or practice held by many in that place. This belief stopped me from going into the US for a number of years and in fact, a lot of countries in the world. Indeed, the HB2 law feels like the lawmakers have traveled back in time, instead of moving forward. But to not go to North Carolina, based on my opposition of the law does not make sense on many levels as well, some of which you have already pointed out.

As a parallel, for many years I did not travel into the US because of their policies and/or government, and finally relented in 2007. I went to Arizona and realized that I had been missing out on so much by this self imposed travel ban. Next, I went to the Amazon jungle, a place I had avoided for so long because of the rampant deforestation and the corruption that enabled it, but this was a place where I was able to swim in the river, sleep in the jungle and further develop an affinity for it. Then I went to Lebanon, a place I avoided because of the senseless killing that had gone on there for years, but where I was able to travel the coastline of the Mediterranean Sea, visit some of the oldest cities in the world and explore the incredible diversity and people. Then I went to Syria, a place I avoided because of the madman that is Assad, but a place that I was able to meet some of the most amazing people in the world and some of the most amazing places in the world, before the destruction that has unfolded since. Then I went to Israel, a place avoided for the way Palestinians have been treated for decades, but a place so rich in cultural history that I was easily reminded of the insignificance of my views. Then I went to Uganda, a place that did massacre their own and currently treats LGBTQ even worse than what is proposed by HB2, but a place where I got to trek with mountain gorillas in their natural habitat, spend time with the locals of the land and eat the amazing foods they shared. Then I went to Sri Lanka, a place where their sitting president had massacred many of the nations citizens in an effort to force peace upon the island, but also a place where I have eaten the best foods of my life, and been humbled by the generosity of so many I encountered there.

At the end of the day, the list goes on and on of so many places that have so many practices which I do not condone and could easily justify not traveling to. But then I might as well do as I did before and just stay home all the time, because if I look hard enough, I can always find something worth protesting about.
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and they won't notice either way.
Click to expand...

I suspect you are wrong on that....sure ..individually there is not that much difference but if 10- 20% of the riders heading that way decide to shift elsewhere then the cumulative effect is felt. Only those in jurisdiction can get the changes going.

It's part of a larger effort...

The battle over so-called “religious freedom” legislation, which conservatives say protects religious liberty and critics argue sanctions anti-L.G.B.T. discrimination, didn’t end with the battle over Indiana’s and Arkansas’s controversial bills last year. On Monday, Georgia governor Nathan Deal vetoed a religious freedom bill after a number of companies—including major Hollywood studios and Salesforce C.E.O. Marc Benioff—threatened to pull their business from the state. But similar protests didn’t stop North Carolina governor Pat McCrory, who signed a bill last week preventing transgender people from choosing which bathroom to use, sparking a wave of boycotts.

On Monday, New York governor Andrew Cuomo issued a statement banning all non-essential state travel to North Carolina, uniting with his nemesis, New York mayorBill de Blasio, who joined the mayors of Seattle and San Francisco in doing the same for all city employees. “In New York, we believe that all people—regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation—deserve the same rights and protections under the eyes of the law,” Cuomo said in a statement, citing the state’s history at the forefront L.G.B.T. rights. “From Stonewall to marriage equality, our state has been a beacon of hope and equality for the LGBT community, and we will not stand idly by as misguided legislation replicates the discrimination of the past.”
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http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03/north-carolina-lgbt-discrimination-cuomo

so yes it will make a difference and will cumulatively get noticed.....is already since it is being discussed here. :D

Shane most people around the world are terrific...some govs and cultures not so much.

I avoided S Africa for years as I knew I would mouth off and get myself in trouble. Now I have very fond memories of several winters travelling there.....Western Cape is heavenly.

I am seriously considering driving to Cuba now :D

( Ive been but would be too cool to ride down the Keys, on the ferry and around Cuba on the Wee ( you need something with suspension ).
 
Shane, excellent response. Snobike Mike says much with little.. there are many with much MUCH bigger problems.
Macdoc speaks politico truths also. But back to fun: Md, I am in. I would be very interested in that ferry. I say we pool a few $k buy a KLR 650 or DRZ 400..something proven reliable but old & not flashy & we fly / ride one way each. I would like to spend at least a month in the winter riding & exploring the island. The way back is easy also.. I have storage options in Orlando if need be :cool:
 
There was an issue at the gym I go to , where a guy claiming to be a woman was in the woman's change room. Turned out to be a pervert but he got off but saying he was transgender pre-op

There are a lot of perverts taking advantage of this "transgender" issue.

Some/most states don't have legislation such as this because maybe they don't care about tackling these issues or are plain scared of being tagged homophobic.

How do we prove who is a real transgender and who is not... It's a shady area...

Something to consider
 
cbcanada said:
There was an issue at the gym I go to , where a guy claiming to be a woman was in the woman's change room. Turned out to be a pervert but he got off but saying he was transgender pre-op

There are a lot of perverts taking advantage of this "transgender" issue.

Some/most states don't have legislation such as this because maybe they don't care about tackling these issues or are plain scared of being tagged homophobic.

How do we prove who is a real transgender and who is not... It's a shady area...

Something to consider
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why the NC law is a great way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Your birth gender (which doesn't change no matter what you lop off or cosmetically alter) is the basis for where you can go number 1 and number 2.

Here's to success of this proposal in NC.
 
Can we just have independent bathroom stalls and be done with this? I never understood the need for separating bathrooms. Why does a gas station need to assign a bathroom for females and one for males? Same ****... literally.

BTW it really bugs me shopping in the us where males can't go in the female change rooms and the other way around for feedback. Such a prude country.
 
MacDoc said:
I suspect you are wrong on that....sure ..individually there is not that much difference but if 10- 20% of the riders heading that way decide to shift elsewhere then the cumulative effect is felt. Only those in jurisdiction can get the changes going.

It's part of a larger effort...
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about NC when I said that, I meant places to visit and not going there because you disagree with their laws... like most of the places will care.

I disagree with many things that Islamic places say and do, but I still lived in Indonesia and travelled through Brunei, Malaysia, etc, and I am glad I did. Do you think the Sultan of Brunei is going to care what-so-ever if tourists stop visiting Brunei because of his rules (such as no alcohol served in the country)?
 
Snobike Mike said:
Which is exactly why the NC law is a great way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Your birth gender (which doesn't change no matter what you lop off or cosmetically alter) is the basis for where you can go number 1 and number 2.

Here's to success of this proposal in NC.
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
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