Btrutal... This is only going to make things worse for those fleeing Syria... | GTAMotorcycle.com

Btrutal... This is only going to make things worse for those fleeing Syria...

Zoodles95

Zoodles95

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Brussels now...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/brussels-airport-explosion-reports-1.3501831

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/21/europe/belgium-terror-fight-molenbeek/index.html

Been a lot of lower level stuff the past couple of months but this is a pretty big event. I fear a rise of the nutter right in parts of Europe. I wonder how this will affect the electorate in Germany? In the U.S. Trump will use this to galvanize the worst elements of his base.

What will happen to all of those innocent people stuck in camps on the edges of Europe? There is nothing left for them to go back to.
 
Maybe payback for the capture of wanted Paris attack terrorists Abdeslam.

Abdeslam and most of the other attackers did not arrive in Europe with the recent wave of Syrian refugees. In fact Abdeslam was born in Belgium some 26 years ago, and it doesn't appear as if he had ever been to the middle east at all.

Hopefully sober heads will prevail. The real terrorists have easier ways to get into Europe than what are often slow, uncomfortable, and even perilous refugee routes.
 
Kidding ourselves if we don't think it will happen here. Only a matter of time. These guys are brainwashing kids everywhere.
 
Was in Brussels last week as we have offices there and in Antwerp.

Its a scary place. One of the worst cities I have ever been in. Its not even possible to drive through Schaerbeek or St. Josse any more.

I lived there in the early 2000's and its sad to see what's happened. Used to be a beautiful, cosmopolitan city.
 
Does getting killed by a terrorist hurt more than getting killed by a drunk driver, bank robber, rapist, disillusioned employee etc.

Somebody doesn't like their lot in life and can't see a way out so they turn to violence.
 
nobbie48 said:
Does getting killed by a terrorist hurt more than getting killed by a drunk driver, bank robber, rapist, disillusioned employee etc.

Somebody doesn't like their lot in life and can't see a way out so they turn to violence.
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You make a good point. The concerning thing is that to integrate these people properly takes time, money, and resources (any refugees or immigrants). If we or any other country just bring people in and do not have the proper housing, schooling, resources etc to help them then they will just end up in some sort of ghetto with feelings of hopelessness. We see this in cities like Chicago and elsewhere with certain communities being overrun by drugs and gang activity because they feel helpless and these gangs give them a sense of belonging and purpose. Without proper resources young immigrants might turn to extremism for a sense of belonging and purpose.

The really bad thing is that economies all over Europe are going into the crapper and these countries will not be able to afford to properly integrate these newcomers into their society. The result may well be more "home grown" terrorists in the future who have fallen under the spell of these nutjobs due to a sense of alienation and helplessness. This of course will lead to more Islamophobia which helps to support the narrative which ISIS and others are putting out there.

Very sad and no sure what can be done. :(
 
Zoodles95 said:
You make a good point. The concerning thing is that to integrate these people properly takes time, money, and resources (any refugees or immigrants).

Very sad and no sure what can be done. :(
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Equality means everyone gets treated the same. If we make it a point to take a person from the third world and give them special indoctrination to a Canadian lifestyle we have to do it to an immigrant from the USA, Great Britain, Japan, Australia. If we don't it's racial profiling.

Most of the latter know our hygiene norms. If you grew up in a desert taking a shower every morning wouldn't be normal.

I grew up eating with a fork and knife. I should try eating with a piece of pita. Different isn't always wrong.
 
It is not so much indoctrination as it is helping them with ESL, housing, opportunities etc. If people just come in and then get forgotten about and neglected poverty and alienation are not too far behind. This will make them or their children ripe fruit for the propaganda machine of ISIS and their ilk.
 
nobbie48 said:
Equality means everyone gets treated the same.
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Normal immigration stream vs refugee stream is already not conducive to equality. One usually comes as a result of a well-considered plan and voluntary choice to come specifically to Canada with personal means and/or support from sponsors/family already in Canada. This line does not need help.

The other comes from a less voluntary decision to immediately flee a life-threatening war situation and seek sanctuary anywhere else, usually with little more than the clothes on one's back. This line does need help and should get the help needed to adapt to their new place of refuge.
 
I somewhat disagree with the above and I would site examples of immigration from China, Taiwan, Korea, etc.

I find that immigrants from these countries tend to be hard working, well educated and very entrepreneurial. They tend to be real self starters and generally a boon to the Canadian economy. I've worked with 2 guys (one from Beijing and one from Seoul) at my last 4 companies and I couldn't do with out them. I generally find that people who succeed are those that are willing to get up off their backside and break through barriers regardless.

What I discovered a long time ago is that no-one in this world is going to help you. You can sit around waiting for a handout and become more and more bitter, or you can help yourself.

I have a really good friend, Tony Nguyen (or Tony "Win" as he likes to pronounce it) who was a Vietnamese refugee that came to the US with nothing. He started SBTN Inc. with $12,000 he charged on a bunch of credit cards and its now one of the largest ethnic broadcast station groups in the US.
 
Delboy said:
I somewhat disagree with the above and I would site examples of immigration from China, Taiwan, Korea, etc.

I find that immigrants from these countries tend to be hard working, well educated and very entrepreneurial. They tend to be real self starters and generally a boon to the Canadian economy. I've worked with 2 guys (one from Beijing and one from Seoul) at my last 4 companies and I couldn't do with out them. I generally find that people who succeed are those that are willing to get up off their backside and break through barriers regardless.

What I discovered a long time ago is that no-one in this world is going to help you. You can sit around waiting for a handout and become more and more bitter, or you can help yourself.

I have a really good friend, Tony Nguyen (or Tony "Win" as he likes to pronounce it) who was a Vietnamese refugee that came to the US with nothing. He started SBTN Inc. with $12,000 he charged on a bunch of credit cards and its now one of the largest ethnic broadcast station groups in the US.
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griff2 points out the difference between immigrants with assets (Skills, contacts or money) and refugees who could be unskilled, unconnected and poor. Without assistance refugees just go from a camp in the blazing sun to one in the blowing snow.

An illiterate 40 year old refugee that has done nothing but grow a few beans and milk a few goats will not advance through the system like an educated immigrant with a family history of enterprise.
 
nobbie48 said:
griff2 points out the difference between immigrants with assets (Skills, contacts or money) and refugees who could be unskilled, unconnected and poor. Without assistance refugees just go from a camp in the blazing sun to one in the blowing snow.

An illiterate 40 year old refugee that has done nothing but grow a few beans and milk a few goats will not advance through the system like an educated immigrant with a family history of enterprise.
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Fully agree. Are we really doing them a favour by bringing them here? Yes, we're taking them out of dirty camps but then what? Disenfranchised existence? That's not helping anybody. I don't understand why these people can't be saved by oil rich Arab countries. I need somebody to finance my pension when I retire, not another dependant.
 
inreb said:
Fully agree. Are we really doing them a favour by bringing them here? Yes, we're taking them out of dirty camps but then what? Disenfranchised existence? That's not helping anybody. I don't understand why these people can't be saved by oil rich Arab countries. I need somebody to finance my pension when I retire, not another dependant.
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Refugee families with children will effectively be funding your pension when you retire. While the parents may or may not be able to make a net positive contribution to Canada's bottom line during what remains of their lives, their children are another story altogether. Those children will become contributing taxpayers paying into the system that will be paying out your CPP.
 
griff2 said:
Refugee families with children will effectively be funding your pension when you retire. While the parents may or may not be able to make a net positive contribution to Canada's bottom line during what remains of their lives, their children are another story altogether. Those children will become contributing taxpayers paying into the system that will be paying out your CPP.
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I should hope so. It would be a monumental fail if second generation immigrants can't pay their own way including a stipend for yours truly.
 
nobbie48 said:
griff2 points out the difference between immigrants with assets (Skills, contacts or money) and refugees who could be unskilled, unconnected and poor. Without assistance refugees just go from a camp in the blazing sun to one in the blowing snow.

An illiterate 40 year old refugee that has done nothing but grow a few beans and milk a few goats will not advance through the system like an educated immigrant with a family history of enterprise.
Click to expand...

I wasn't responding to Grifs post. I was responding to Zoodles.

However even if you are a refugee the world owes you nothing. My friend Tony drove a taxi in LA for the first 6 months he lived there.

There seems to be 2 kinds of people in the world, those who are self sufficient and those who can't fend for themselves.
 
Zoodles95 said:
You make a good point. The concerning thing is that to integrate these people properly takes time, money, and resources (any refugees or immigrants). If we or any other country just bring people in and do not have the proper housing, schooling, resources etc to help them then they will just end up in some sort of ghetto with feelings of hopelessness. We see this in cities like Chicago and elsewhere with certain communities being overrun by drugs and gang activity because they feel helpless and these gangs give them a sense of belonging and purpose. Without proper resources young immigrants might turn to extremism for a sense of belonging and purpose.

The really bad thing is that economies all over Europe are going into the crapper and these countries will not be able to afford to properly integrate these newcomers into their society. The result may well be more "home grown" terrorists in the future who have fallen under the spell of these nutjobs due to a sense of alienation and helplessness. This of course will lead to more Islamophobia which helps to support the narrative which ISIS and others are putting out there.

Very sad and no sure what can be done. :(
Click to expand...

"homegrown" terrorism tends to be referred to people who are citizens or permanent immigrants in the country the act is committed in and not the refugees. Refugees don't tend to fight for something that destroyed their lives. The problem with homegrown terrorism is, as you pointed out, "people needing a sense of belonging and purpose" and IMO a complete and total lack of understanding what opportunities are available here to them.

Most of the integration process is being handled privately by groups setup to help refugees from all corners of the world (Canada always takes in refugees and approves thousands of permanent resident applications/year) with only a small investment from the public sector. If it were as taxing as people make it out to be, this would've been a problem a very long time ago.

@inreb having refugees or not doesn't effect if you get your CPP, that process is governed by each years taxpayers. Your (and everyone elses) "payout" is an agreed percentage taken out from the tax pool. This is why "baby boomers" are great in the early years but society has problems once they reach retirement. At the beginning you have a "pyramid", a lot of people paying into the tax pool with little taking out. This allows society to expand and used the left over money to invest in the economy. Once baby boomers retire, the "pyramid" tends to invert since they don't have as many children to continue to support such growth (we would be overpopulated really). Having more refugees (and more immigrants) helps to balance off this effect since they will be paying into that pool too.
 
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